Revolution Experiment

revolution experiment
: [00:00:25] Hi there This is Michelle Wilson I'm the executive director with the tri Village Chamber partnership. And you're listening to our podcast business inspirers. I'm really excited to have Mark Tinus with me today. Mark is with the revolution experiment and karate cowboy is one of the brands so we're going to talk a little bit about both of those things and all of those things and you today. So we're going to start out with you. OK and talk about what Mark wanted to be when you grow up.

: [00:00:51] Ooh. Well that's that's evolved a lot. Let's say it this way. I graduated from Ohio State back in 2000 as a mechanical engineer.

: [00:01:03] So when I was getting going I was really looking at you know how to work in a factory and work and operations and that was the life goal that I had for myself and really didn't have much vantage point outside of that until I started to travel. So when I started my career was with Anheuser-Busch in the burring department here in Columbus here in Columbus has a big big brewery up 71 there. And then they ended up promoting me and moving me out to the brewing department in Newark New Jersey. And so actually as I left Ohio and kind of broadened my horizons a little bit it kind of opened up a lot of doors and opportunities and I knew I didn't want to be on call 24/7 in a manufacturing facility.

: [00:01:45] My entire life as I've watched all my bosses and whatnot grow up so I went back to grad school at night at NYU and learned about this small profession called management consulting and so that was really kind of my entry point into oh wow there's this whole big business world out there beyond just making beer at the time which was all they really knew. So I got into consulting got into the consulting clubs and then when I left Anheuser I got into corporate and marketing strategy consulting. So I was actually working for a small boutique agency in Manhattan. But our base was in London. And so I traveled a lot. Did a lot in Western Europe and Africa South America just doing branding projects working for global spirits companies like Bacardi and their portfolio consists of like Grey Goose and Dewars and my guess which is a bunch of brands like that.

: [00:02:42] So it was kind of one of those ones where it wasn't necessarily part of the plan but it was a hell of a ride.

: [00:02:48] So yeah just kind of kept going on it.

: [00:02:50] That's amazing novel and curious you racked up and then eventually my wife was like I'd love to see you like in the house more and not on planes.

: [00:03:00] So I took one small step down so I took a job as a marketing director within our in North America and South America team. So I actually had 40 some odd markets in the Caribbean South America Central America that I was working on everything but Heineken was kind of what I always told people. So it was all the local brands if you've ever vacation in like the Bahamas there's a brand called Callick. I worked on that brand St. Lucia. There's a brand called Petone I worked on that brand and Panama Suriname bunch of others. And so that was a fun ride too. But that really opened my eyes to was I love the world of marketing but I loved the world of marketing strategy even more. And so I really got into this whole marketing on a budget philosophy because every one of my markets was an island or a small country and you know I would get to come back to a boardroom in New York and talk about two million dollar budgets for one campaign for the U.S. and I would be fighting for 20000 dollars to put up a billboard in Haiti. Right. And so I'm like you know these were so we had to think a little bit more creatively it became a more holistic model of of looking at brand building and needs to be really insightful about local culture and you know if you're if you're talking about a national brand of Haiti that is 99 percent market share and you're dealing with a public of you know a population of 10 million people but their net income is a dollar a day and your beers cost 50 cents.

: [00:04:31] What do you do. All right. How do you market that product you're not fighting another competitor because you're 99 percent market share you're not. You're not trying to you know steal all this disposable income because there isn't a lot of disposable income so what you'd like turn that into is a philosophy of business building and brand building where you started talking about economic stimulus and it's not about stealing their 50 cents a day it's about growing their income by 50 cents a day. So they have disposable income right. So we took a very cool approach to it. Heineken was a great playground because they were very loose and let us kind of explore and do much different things with it. And so that's really where I kind of got my teeth cut on. Wow. This isn't about like fill in Box A B and C this is about really getting out of your own comfort zone and doing different things. And once I kind of had a nibble that I was kind of addicted and then it just became very frustrated in corporate America. It was like I got to go start something.

: [00:05:29] And here you are. Now I'm here. So I have to go back for a minute because it's fascinating that you worked for for large brands and you were you were you would think have deep pockets and you were fighting for pennies of those budgets.

: [00:05:44] Well and it's all like It's all relative right. So when you're working for huge brands with huge you know revenue streams they're going to allocate budget to where they think the potential is and things like that. And you know if you're if you're talking about brands that really could grow but have to grow in innovative ways it's not something you're going to sink a bunch of budget towards because you know what's what's the goal of 100 percent market share. Brand You know you want to grow but you don't want. You know we're also in the alcohol industry. We don't want overconsumption. We want premium ization. We want to better people's lives. So you know there's a limit point to where you don't want to over invest in markets that are sure that don't have a ton of potential to grow.

: [00:06:28] And when I tell people I worked for Heineken and people's like eyes pop up now what a great huge company that you have that you worked with and it was always like shocking to folks to know that you know Heineken has a portfolio of brands in the U.S. alone. When I was there it was about less than 5 percent market share really. So for Heineken Koseki staccato which are all the brands that we had here in the U.S. you know all that summed up was was you know less than 5 percent. And so coming from Anheuser-Busch who is nearly 50 percent of the market. By the time I left I mean that's a you know light years difference in business size and how they and how they grow now globally there are much bigger brand. I worked a lot with a team in Mexico because they were their major those brands are very large in Mexico but it's always like kind of all that point of relativity right. We know our sandbox and folks are like Heineken huge in America and I'd say we make 10 times our money in Mexico right. That's because they're just the size of the business in Mexico and so it's it's always been this industry. So even though I've bounced around a ton in this industry is just super interesting because literally you go down any rabbit hole and there's you know there's brands there's categories there's you know times of when people are consuming products. And so to me it's just an ever changing like constant evolving thing that we get to get to explore every single day in school.

: [00:07:57] And I think it's also interesting that you went back to school and you still ended up in the beverage industry. You know you kind of it seems like this has been your hover of where you've spent. My

: [00:08:08] Wife has said I've never grown up out of the frat house. Yeah.

: [00:08:12] It's how to spin a multi decade career and never growing up and when you are 19 or 21 I mean 21 21.

: [00:08:19] That's exactly what you need to know.

: [00:08:21] That is interesting and also that you've been to all these exotic places and you came back to Columbus Ohio. Absolutely. Two really cool things. Yeah the Columbus story is great.

: [00:08:30] We get that question all the time which is oh you know Tess City USA you'd like our business which I'm sure we'll get to is very very innovation driven.

: [00:08:39] We're trying to do things outside of our category norms so we get that question about Columbus a lot and I go I've met my wife here in 2000 and this was the place we always called home. You know I was nine years on the East Coast and we were always like Oh when are we going to go home. You know like in nine years I mean that starts to tell you something about where you should live and where you're ultimately going to you know go back to raise your kids like you were raised and so there's something about the heartland you know people people that you want to get.

: [00:09:10] It must be the water. I don't know. But people do tend to want to come back. Yeah. You know and you raise their kids here like you said so. And certainly a great place to start a business. Absolutely. So let's let's talk a little bit about how you made the transition into starting a revolution is it's getting a lot of brick walls and a lot of headaches is probably the best way to put it.

: [00:09:31] I think the first person that said that yeah I'm just feel like we've all done this. This conversation changes when it goes from coffee to cocktails. But yes you know it's early in the morning. You drinking coffee.

: [00:09:46] Yeah.

: [00:09:48] You know I like I think most entrepreneurs got well educated in an industry and you know felt that whole 90 percent prepared to get into it when reality is we were probably about 10 percent prepared to get into it and that little bit of ignorance is what drives you to keep going forward. So you keep finding out things because if I would have had to talk to myself three years ago I don't know if I would have had the stomach three years ago to continue doing what we're doing. But luckily I didn't know that. So I just kept going.

: [00:10:18] But yeah I mean we I started working on this brand for karate cowboy with just kind of the intention of doing all the things that I had seen shot down in innovation departments for companies that I had worked on.

: [00:10:31] So big companies were always looking at innovative new trends and where to go. But you know for them to invest in a startup type idea like that is hit or miss where somebody like myself could go and start something like that and they could come in and buy it and then there assurance of success goes up dramatically. Right.

: [00:10:52] And to them that that investment in a two year old brand versus starting it up themselves is almost negligible to them. And so I saw that as a space you know someone that wants to get out of of corporate decision making and kind of start my own thing. I wanted to get into that and so I was looking at trends and all the wonderful market research things that we did at Heineken on what categories can we explore. I obviously like had kind of an affinity to international brands international categories. And it kind of fell in love with the social aspects of socky. And so I started exploring socky and why it hasn't really blown up in the U.S. the way that it could and how consumers really viewed that category and where the evolution was going to go. So on the research side it was all about Asian fusion and the progress of Asian food in America and how it's growing and culinary usually leads beverage by you know three to five years or so.

: [00:11:53] And so as you see the sprout up of other cool Ohio based entrepreneurs who are doing things like fusion sushi and tons of the different fusion restaurants that are coming out of Cleveland but not you know going statewide and going even even region wide you know those are super indicative of where where folks are getting kind of socialized into it because you know 15 years ago if we were having this conversation tequila wouldn't have been in a mainstream bar would have been in a Mexican joint. Right. Just saying you know you wouldn't have gone to happy hour and Grandview Avenue and seen taco tuesday at every single bar. Right. Like that's not that wasn't an acculturation factor that played into the Midwest pretty even. You know American culture. But if you looked at how fish tacos were blowing up in California and then it kind of like spread. And we always said there's always these wonderful correlations that you can study on like how acculturation works in America. We always looked at Mexican beer on and correlated it to avocado consumption. So markets and avocados were being consumed at probably meant there was a lot of places serving guacamole probably meant there was a lot of places that were serving Mexican beer. And so it was that like blew up in guacamole wasn't just in random you know Mexican restaurants. And you didn't get it at any any place. You know tequila grew Mexican beard grew. So on and so forth. So we were looking at that kind of as our fore sight of like all right now let's look at Asian culture Asian fusion and figure out how we can kind of Americanized the socky category in a way.

: [00:13:28] And one of the big things that I was looking at when we were starting that up was. How do consumers behave with socky right. Like it's it's right now it's just so ingrained in a sushi restaurant culture either you know folks know hot or cold you know socky bombs they know. You know is it cloudy is it not. Those are the kind of the education stream of where we're psyche's gone but not a lot of folks are going to socky tastings like they are going to wine tastings and really understanding that it's very similar actually like education trail instead of grapes you're talking rice and rice polish. You're talking water just like you are with wine. It's all about regions in Japan. So there is this like very kind of connoisseurship like play to socky which is how they've grown that category to date. We were trying to shortcut that by not saying like hey we're going to go around and do these socky Education Tours. Rather let's look at how other categories have grown through like calk cocktail culture through mainstream bar use. Right. And let's fix some of those fundamental like product issues with socky. And so when we got into that it was all right. Shelf life is a problem for buyers because they open it it's like wine. People are trying to drink like spirits meaning like have a little bit put it in a cocktail or five ounce six pounds.

: [00:14:49] Right.

: [00:14:49] And if you are going to go and get a socky pour in a on sushi restaurant you're not getting the whole bottle right like you're getting. They're pouring it in a socky teeny or they're doing a cocktail with it. Well in shelf life becomes an issue because if you pour out of the bottle on Monday and it taste different on Wednesday now your cocktails program is all out of sorts right. Or if you have to throw it away by Friday. Now your waist and you know the bar economics don't work. So that was kind of issue number one for us was like let's fix shelf life. Issue number two is let's simplify because the cocktails using it as an ingredient we're doing multiple pours. So we were trying to combine all that under one umbrella and then also you know the kind of the biggest entity for me was really trying to just

: [00:15:35] Socialize it in the spirit world because a lot of folks had the misconception that it was a sphere are ready. You know for the good bad and indifferent of it all folks were like Oh it's it's you know it's not 40 percent alcohol and you're like nuts it's like Rice wants 13 to 15 percent alcohol. And so we were just trying to kind of almost create a product that fit the already current existing perception so that we weren't having to educate over the top to get them away from that perception. OK.

: [00:16:03] And so that's where a worker like Albert came from a fusion of American and Japanese which is karate and Cowboy was a little tongue in cheek. We laughed a lot when we came up with and we're like actually is kind of picture perfect for what we're trying to say and we're like you know that's you know not taking ourselves too seriously but really trying to accentuate the two cultures that are that are represented in it. So we took socky from the Kobe region of Japan which I went over there and scoped out quite a few facilities but we have a great supply relationship over there now. We picked the Kobe Osaka region because they were a little sweeter Saki's less dry. And then we combine it with with the six times distilled grain neutral which is which is a corn based liquor. If we would filter it'd be a vodka if you'd put it in a barrel it's whiskey like it's kind of one of those mentalities. But we're taking it you know and it's unfinished perspective combining it all and then filtering it. So you know I always say I would love to just be able to say it's kind of like vodka socky right. Make it a lot easier for people to understand.

: [00:17:11] But in technical terms what we're doing is we're taking you know an unfinished sphere combining it with our psyches and then finishing it as if it would be a vodka. But by standards we can't go that so. So that's what we that's the product that we create and it creates its own kind of category it's got a lot of floral and and creamy notes that you'd expect out of a socky. But it is that 40 percent alcohol that added alcohol gives us the shelf life back so it can behave just like a vodka can and doesn't spoil it doesn't start to degrade over time doesn't have to be refrigerated yet idiota and so it kind of ticks all those boxes that we were really trying to fix with the product to kind of match up to the way consumers were viewing that category. So that's that was the the deck that we put together three years ago. Now where that's like evolve to has been crazy but. But you know that's that was the initial thinking behind why we created all this. It wasn't just two people sitting in a room being like let's make Zake.

: [00:18:14] Now the thing.

: [00:18:15] Well you mentioned the social part of it and I'm interested in that because did you mean the social part of it in regards to when you indicated that you didn't want to change people's perception but you wanted to work with their perception is that what you mean.

: [00:18:29] Yes I mean I think I think the when you're looking at the alcohol industry as a whole I mean like we're we're really trying to promote like we say this at Heineken all the time we were social networks before we were social networking before computers existed right. Right. You'd go to the pub you'd meet up with people and chat. And that's where you met new people. So maybe you met their husband or wife at a bar. You are the right guy is a social lubricant as well of sorts with the liquid. But it's about consumption like occasion and and how we how we pull it together. Socky is that and ceremoniously is that for in Japan. And so when we were looking at it it was very much so celebratory. It was a huge part of wedding ceremonies. It was a huge part of hanging socky barrel when you open a new business. It's similar to kind of like what we do when we you know smash a champagne bottle on a boat right. Right. Like you know a big part of the alcohol industry is kind of intertwining and those like celebratory social occasions. And if we wanted to embrace that just like I think most companies want to embrace even even down to the brewpub level of just having of a location where you can bring people together enjoy one thing not make it too serious you know. Right. But give folks that playground to meet new people and share experiences with old friends. Right.

: [00:19:50] So absolutely. Yeah. Is anybody else out there doing socky that you know of when you started there.

: [00:19:57] Yeah there are a few. All international. They there was one company kind of doing a similar thing to us with vodka in Amsterdam and they're still doing pretty well out in Europe and Asia. And then there was actually a mixology competition where folks are coming up with innovative products and there was a Jen Psaki blend that came out of the U.K. about three years ago or so still relatively light Neish as a market.

: [00:20:26] But a lot of folks are playing with it. It's more it's less brands are doing it. But you're starting to see unlike the mixology world and especially on the coasts it getting incorporated into more and more high level cocktail making. OK.

: [00:20:41] Which is really where we want to kind of promote the brand and and push it because it does just add a very unique twist to things that you know. It's no different than a chef finding a new ingredient. It's you know it just adds to the breadth of what folks can do. Right. And that's kind of where we've played in the angle and then locally here we have a ton of great spirits producers like popping up and all doing really cool things and it's you know that becomes the question all along is like how money can we sustain in this market how can we do this and you know if you view it as the community that we're building here you know we're doing what we're doing Middle West is doing what they're doing watersheds got their you know perspective you've got new new distilleries popping up in Indiana with noble cut. You've got 451 and Clintonville everything here new and new and here it is.

: [00:21:31] Yeah. Malins hi hi bank high but I think it's showing great guys and their place looks amazing are ready to keep driving by hoping I can catch a glimpse.

: [00:21:41] I know that you know they're hard at work. Adam and Jordan team are they're great guys and you know but we're all we all are focused on growing the industry right.

: [00:21:53] So Central High is really gaining a great reputation as having some world class distilleries in Switzerland.

: [00:22:00] Yeah I mean when we did we did we we just won a couple of three medals all three of our products at the San Francisco World competition in 2017 which has been great. You know we've we've loved that because it's an accolade for us that helps to put us on the map. You know we it's exactly the question you just asked which is who else is doing what we're doing. Not a lot. Which is great. Is an innovative company you want to kind of be on your own as a reference point company. It's really difficult right.

: [00:22:34] Because if I made a vodka I could say well you know if it tastes like it's mine right like it's different like this or we want it to be smooth or we want it to have these notes we want it to be this right when nobody has a point of reference of what your liquid is. It's really tough to start educating folks on what it should taste like or why that's quality or what. You know as you bring into it. So competition is like that helped to put us on the map because we're you know you're going to 40 key tasters that are familiar with every single style and they're just basically judging you on the merit of. Are you making a good product. Like it's not. It's not like oh I'm a gin drinker and I like it better or worse than gin. It's. It's you know are we taking the time and the diligence to make a really quality product that fits the style that we're trying to go after. And and we've got good accolades for it.

: [00:23:25] I read that it was there were over 2000 entries and it was a blind tasting. So absolutely yes. Really.

: [00:23:32] And in three years you've started something and you're winning medals which is that and to be honest with you it's again it all draws back to community.

: [00:23:40] We you know when I was coming up with this brand in a in a basement in Brooklyn you know we were looking at all of our network.

: [00:23:50] And so when I when I was creating it we were came time to talk about the actual manufacturing and putting together the products we used. I use my network to to kind of find us a good distiller in Louisville. OK. You know the time.

: [00:24:03] So if you look at my timeline I left Columbus in 2006 and got back in 15.

: [00:24:11] So those nine years as everybody here is very familiar with. It was a pretty drastic change right. Like it and I felt a little bit like back to the future as I like walked out.

: [00:24:21] I'm like What is this. This is this is short notice. I can't change if you're got one.

: [00:24:27] So yeah I mean it's a massive change so I didn't my network was very small. None of these craft distilleries existed in Columbus and in 2006 so you know so I didn't really know what I was coming back to. Like I said we were really moving to call on this because we wanted to live in Columbus and so we had a distilling partnership when I started this three years ago in Louisville because we're like it's the Mecca right. Louisville Kentucky horse that's what you makers. I mean this is where you should be if you're going to create a quality product. Well lo and behold I mean it's like anything else. It takes good people with good execution and you know investing in the right things and you find good and bad in every community right. And in that regard and the more and more I actually created a good relationship with Ryan Lang over Middle West and we started jamming on the fact of you know it started at a bar like also so we're sitting there drinking it still happens we were sitting there drinking it. At North High brewing and he turned to me and he goes Why are you making drives down to Louisville to make like small tweaks to your product and doing this this and this.

: [00:25:36] And I was like I God it's because we just needed to get it done and we thought we had a really good relationship with. We didn't have a really good relationship with our with our distillery down on the hill and it just came time to pick it apart and say like what can we do this better and you know Ryan was super confident that he could. They've done a lot with investing in their place and they make some really great products. And so we just started picking it apart. And so a year and a half later we moved all our production in-house with them here in Columbus. Now that's been a love that collaborative. Absolutely. That's amazing. Well I mean it just it's. It's always one of those things and I'm you know I'm kind of a soul founder sitting around so having even a sounding board with you know the team over there. And I think that a lot of folks just don't realize how collaborative we all are when we have ideas and it's like what. Did you try that. Like we tweak this and you know we tweak the process and so you know that was about a year ago now we've been with them for a year.

: [00:26:35] There's a few there's a few. I mean they have some beautiful. So good for you.

: [00:26:39] And so we got that done. And those were actually the first spirits that we pulled off the line at Middle West were the ones that we competed with.

: [00:26:49] And it's just and I think folks that have seen our evolution or have tried our products have seen like how we've evolved even as a company and you never want to say like the first thing that you ever did was worse than anything else and you did. But you know progress is good and learning how people experience your product and cleaning it up and you know we went from a flavors only company to you know doing pure spirits and really like bringing back the genuine genuine nature of what we're doing as a product base and Middle West was a pivotal part of us being able to do that you know without ten million dollars and build our place.

: [00:27:25] And they're smart guys.

: [00:27:27] Exactly what's been doing and they're very good at what they do. So great partnership definitely. Yeah fantastic. So tell me the three the three main flavors.

: [00:27:37] Sure. We. So we started actually again kind of coming back to that insight base was we kind of wanted to create some buzz and some attention and do some of our most radical stuff up front. So we actually launched a honey wasabi blend sweet and spicy sounds very radical. A lot of folks you know it's definitely a wasabi notes are really strong in it. So we and by intention we normalize it by doing a ton of bloody marys with it. So you know folks get that horseradish spice notes to it but it also came from the culinary world sweet spicy.

: [00:28:13] There was a lot of Asian fusion restaurants that were doing this kind of honey base your main dishes and wasabi based side so that they could you know blend those two flavor profiles together so we were kind of taking that to heart.

: [00:28:26] Then we launch I think a more mass appeal flavor which was ginger mint. So obviously plays up very well on that mojito annual world which in just a moment are really great for flavor profiles within there. And then third which is very backwards in the way that we talk about the brand now was our natural like unflavored base and kind of two reasons for that one was you know

: [00:28:49] We learned a lot as a flavor company and we really wanted folks to be more educated on what our base spirit was because we didn't want people to think again without a reference point. What am I chasing the base spirit or is it the flavors that you're adding. We needed we needed our own reference point. I think for lack of a better term. But then too was actually the distilling capabilities right. Like I always like politically incorrectly say when you launch an unflavored version it's like running through the park naked you'd better be a pretty flawless right to be able to be able to show that off.

: [00:29:24] Right.

: [00:29:25] And so that was really we could not get to that level with where we were in Louisville. And we tried we just weren't getting there. And I think that's a that's a tough decision. Sometimes when you want to put a product out in market but you have to be really honest with yourself that it's maybe not ready to go yet and delay and delay. But then we got it out great.

: [00:29:48] And now that's kind of our and probably seemed like a long time. But it's only been three separate in terms I mean I think that's why I'm fascinated by the learning and the growing and the changing. I mean within three years the awards are winning in three short years that's pretty amazing. Yeah. Well thank you. And before we wrap up I want to talk quickly about simple times absolutely. You launched a new line.

: [00:30:09] We did. Yeah and I mean that's that was the birth of again. You know it just kind of constantly learning.

: [00:30:15] We were out in the market with karate cowboy so much with trying to educate people on the cocktail culture of it all and you know I would go to an event and we'd make a thousand cocktails and people would love the cocktail and the best we could ever do for them was hand them a recipe card that said go home and you know squeeze pineapples and ginger and lemon and Lyman. Yes. You're going to go in and then get a confused look back and you know an angry grunt and then they leave.

: [00:30:44] You know so what we well we call me. That was a big event last night. And so yeah we.

: [00:30:52] So we kind of took that inside to Heart which was it came more from an internal need for us which was we need to be able to make consistent real all natural cocktails that promote spirits brands in the best possible light without just pumping it full of sugar and fructose where it just overshadows the spirits barrier. Because you know if I took an overly sugared mass you know ball of liquid and then just throw any alcohol into it it's going to overshadow it's all going to taste the same. Jada and sugar negates bad alcohol. So that's essentially why those are created the way that they're created right is is put the least common denominator in and it's still going to taste good. Well we kind of take the perspective of it's time to grow up right. Folks aren't going and just buying the worst possible liquor to put in their stuff for their house parties and therefore they're buying mixers though that overshadow that purchase that they've just made. If you're spending 10 extra dollars for a bottle of liquor will then respect your cocktail and make it a better cocktail. Right. So we took that vantagepoint on it.

: [00:31:56] We started creating mixes that were not only like freshly crafted with 100 percent all natural ingredients but then we say surprisingly simple there. I affectionately use the term dump and go cocktails which are literally bring your vodka bring your bourbon bring your champagne yet put it in our mix and you've got a craft cocktail and that's like just intended to kind of marry the convenience and quality factors that folks who really want to go after and you shouldn't have to sacrifice one for the other. And so that's really where the birth of simple times came from. And that one is only six months old and that's evolved we went from three flavors of that to now we're at I think 13 or 14 are you I would like started to launch out. It was really awesome because we were able to to kind of grow that and bolster it through farmers markets and I would say like real life market research which is put something in front of somebody they taste it they buy it. We like it. Let's put that up. Let's figure out a new flavor that can fit in that line.

: [00:32:56] And so we've been super flexible with you know we're only limited by the fresh produce we can bring in. Right. And so what you are looking for is you know to evolve this even bigger. Do more partnerships do more collaboration. So you see things like we'll be back in the farmers market scene but now now we're you know we've got a lot of mules and lemonades that are that are now selling in grocery stores across we just did a collaboration Shandi with North High where they're using our blood orange lemonade. We're using their gold and they'll put them together. Now you've got an all local Shandi you know and so you'll see much more of that coming out of this brand with those three tenants that I kind of always talk about with as a freshly crafted simple but then home grown. And so that has to we have to live that ethos which is not only worked with other local businesses in collapsing and doing all these things but also how do we integrate ourselves better in the local agricultural community and work with local farmers and do a real stem to stern vertically and horizontally on how we can work well with everybody because that's a good reason to believe. I mean there's I think one of the challenges when you were looking at brands and were growing things from Columbus specifically. We can't all of us as business owners we can't just flag local because we have a building and we're and we're local. We have to really look intrinsically. Why does it matter that we're making this in Columbus Ohio. If we're ever going to get a national stage presence for what we're doing right.

: [00:34:27] And I think with simple times when I look at our competitors that are coming out of Brooklyn coming out of California you know there reason to believe is their cool hip cities that are doing mixology right. Our reason to believe is we've got awesome agriculture in the Midwest. We grow this stuff. We should have the freshest most real ingredient products coming out and people should understand that and we're going to be knowledge for agriculture you know and that's what people think of when they think of Ohio or Midwestern.

: [00:34:57] Absolutely. We can rest our hats on it and go where are you.

: [00:35:01] Where are you growing those strawberries in the fire escape in Brooklyn. Right absolutely. We have it here and we should be promoting that and we should be pushing it out on a national stage so where people know that you don't fly over these places. You get great products from these places and that's what we're that's the mission that we're really trying to push out there with simple times because I think it's I think it's time and I think it's you know honestly I think it's a great product but everybody else can go it is a great.

: [00:35:29] But that's what we really need. That's really where we're we're coming after. It's a huge departure for us as a business because now we own all that manufacturing.

: [00:35:37] We're doing that all ourselves so to speak comes in really handy with the.

: [00:35:43] Kinko's my dad's happy because I can use an engineering degree right. Yeah. It wasn't four years of waste. Yeah.

: [00:35:52] So yeah that's yeah that's wonderful. Well I love it. I'm so happy for you guys and such great success in a short period of time I know you have many many more great things to come. Where can we find simple times and revolution experiment called cowboy where.

: [00:36:05] Yeah well check out either one of our websites karate cowboy spirit Dom or simple times mixers Dom there's a map with store locators on all of them but quite a few we're in about 20 now. Groceries slash liquor stores for simple times Wilens market and Clintonville 1837 and Chateau wine and spirits for New Albany and Polaris were working with hills markets both locations I saw Twisted Vine twisted vinegar and Huffman's and U.A. Huffer for the tri village.

: [00:36:40] So yeah that's that's been going very very well. New went out in Wellington speckled and has a great great shop in Old Worthington and then you'll see that the farmers markets this summer Dublin Westerville Burlington Grandville so it will be all around those different places.

: [00:36:58] And then we have an online shop too so check out the surf shop and you'll be dig this and will be a dig fest showing off both of our. Yeah that's great.

: [00:37:07] Yeah and karate cowboy most most local liquor stores essentially state agencies would have us. So yeah and Tess's.

: [00:37:13] Thank you so much for telling us the story. And I would encourage everybody to get out there and all of those places and pick some things up and have some cocktails.

: [00:37:22] Appreciate it.