Versa Coworking

Business Inspires welcomes Versa Coworking to this episode.  Brought to you by The Village Of Marble Cliff

Business Inspires Podcast welcomes Versa Coworking

: Hi this is Michelle Wilson I'm the executive director of the TriVillage Chamber Partnership. And this morning we are speaking with April Zimmerman Katz who is the president of Zimmerman Companies and the founder of Versa. And we're actually sitting in Versa at 1201 Dublin Road. So thank you for joining me today.

: Thank you for having me.

: This is exciting. We've done a few podcasts here and the space works really beautifully so glad to finally have you and find out what you what your inspirations were to have this space and start this space. But we always try to start this podcast off with. What did you want to be when you were young what did you want to grow up to?

: Oh wow OK I wasn't expecting that question!

: You are from Columbus right?

: I am from Columbus, right. I come from a long line of entrepreneurs and we've been in Columbus as far back as my great great grandparents. As far as I'm aware of. So we've been in business in the city for a long time. I think at one point I thought I wanted to be a marine biologist. But then it occurred to me that I really did not like to be in the ocean. So I like to look at it. But I like to be in it so that wasn't going to work out for me.

: And then I went towards art. So I've always had an artistic streak. I was an art major in college. Studio art major in college. And these days my artistic tendencies are manifesting themselves in space.

: Yes this place is beautiful and Oliver tells us that you did everything here. Every bit of decorating and interior design was all inspired you.

: Well I won't take credit for all of it. I have a great team. But I do have a specific aesthetic that I like and I like found objects. I like to blend different kinds of things so well our architectural team brought in great architectural elements so the spokes that hang from the ceiling and those kinds of details that are really unique in the space. And then we had some people who helped with color schemes. But yes I was part of all of that have very strong opinions about what I want to see and how I want to see it.

: And I go as far as I can with the design professionals and then I like to fill in the rest so I like to shop at flea markets. I like found objects and I spend a lot of time filling in all of the gaps with that. And I think it gives the space personality.

: Oh it does and I love how well this is a very large space but there's so many nooks and crannies that have their own personality. But it all flows so beautifully together. And I love that I cannot do that to save my life. I wish I could my house as well, I will talk about my house, but it's really beautiful here. And I think everybody can find a space that's very comfortable for them.

: Thank you. That's not our goal.

: Well you did a great job. And. So having the artistic background and major certainly plays into what you're doing today. So even at a young age you kind of knew what you liked and wanted to do and you turned that into a career.

: Yes. I needed to be creating something. And I love color and texture and design. And I think that's it adds richness to the fabric of our lives.

: Absolutely. Good for you. Before Versa you kind of worked hand in hand with your husband Kyle. Is that true?

: Well yes and no. We worked together on a project before we started Versa. So I have been running a family business the third generation apart in multifamily.

: And that Zimmerman Companies?

: Yes. So we have had properties throughout Columbus for four decades. More than that now I actually think the's 1970's. So we're getting closer to five decades. And I came to work inside the apartment business in 1999. I was newly single and had three kids and I needed a job. And so I went to work renting apartments and I loved every minute of it.

: What did you love about that?

: What I loved was getting to meet new people all the time. I really enjoy that. I get a lot of energy from other people. These were people who were making big decisions about how they were going to spend their money on the most expensive part of their budget. It doesn't matter what level of apartment that is that holds true whether it's a 500 dollar apartment or fifteen hundred dollar apartment. There's that expectation that people have of being treated well and having a friendly face. And I loved it. So I worked my way up through the ranks of the apartment business. And now I am in part I'm a partnership with my father and he also owns Olympic Indoor Tennis. So that falls now under that umbrella of the companies that we own and manage.

: That's part of Columbus fiber right?

: Yes. So originally my great grandfather had a Olympic swim the Olympic Swim Club. And my family owned that through various generations until 2014 as a pool. And then I purchased the property in 2014 and built The Deco which is a mixed use project. Kyle helped me build that. He is a developer. He's particularly good at that. And so he helped my father and I build The Deco over on the pool property. The tennis property is still there, next door and getting ready to open for forty-third season in September 2018. So yes that was a very exciting opportunity for Kyle and I to work together.

: So I did a lot of the design work. Once again I think at times the architects were probably tired of seeing me because I had a lot of opinions about how I wanted it to look. And we had a great time working on that project together. And so we sort of rolled into this project from that one.

: There was an article earlier this year that says that Kyle was quoted saying "I find and build it, she fills it and runs it." That kind of simplifies a lot of work I'm sure.

: It does.

: It's a pretty neat way to sum up what you both do and how you compliment each other.

: Yeah we figured out that we have different superpowers and yeah it's better to not step on one another's toes in those situations. We've found it to work so far. We're having a lot of fun.

: And clearly having fun is key when you're talking working with your spouse. We interviewed Steve Weaver a few months back who owns The Candle Labs, and he and his wife started The Candle Labs and they've really grown the business and he says if it were up to him he'd have a thousand stores all over the place and if it were up to her she'd have one that's run just perfectly. And I love that and I love that they figured it out and they have a handful of stores and they're very deliberate about what they do and what they each bring to the table. So I think it has to be finding a balance of what your superpowers are and and having fun because that could be disastrous otherwise.

: When you're in business together your day never ends. So you are at work all day long. And then you're home. And he and I do not see each other over the course of the day. He has Katz Development and he's over at The Buggy Works and I am here in this building. And so we don't really lay eyes on each other until the end of the day. Like most couples. And then we have lots of things to talk about.

: So, I did have someone ask us at one point "How do your children feel? What is the talk around the dinner table sound like at your house?".

: Right. That is interesting.

: We're always talking about business or new opportunities or whatever. Sometimes the girls put a stop to that. "No business tonight!".

: But I think it can be cool that when there's exciting things happening or successes you really deeply understand what those successes mean and what was behind them so you can share that experience each other.

: So let's talk about Versa. So this is a very large space. I think it's larger than what's around.

Yes.

: Is that true?

: Yes.

: OK.

: At the moment.

: At the moment right. Because this as I as I was saying this industry has just really taken off in the past five years in its projections on growth are just crazy. But this is a very large space. And what attracted you to the larger space and was it a concern? Was it just the challenge of it or all of the above?

: So I had this wild idea. I'd heard a little bit about coworking. I was interested in what it was because I was already in the business of essentially renting space. And I was just hearing just the beginnings of this. I convinced my husband to go to a conference with me and it was very interesting. It was the spaces that people were talking about at that conference were anywhere from three to maybe eight thousand square feet. Some people were just on the verge of the ten to fifteen thousand square feet when we were there. Moving very very quickly. So Kyle is well versed in figuring out economies of scale. And when you put all of that infrastructure into space, 5000 square feet, it's really hard to make that work. So pretty quickly we abandoned the idea of five thousand square feet. We were looking at 15000 square feet. And then we stumbled upon this building.

: We didn't stumble. We were brought to this building, very intentionally, by our wonderful brokers and we just thought that it was just an amazing building.

: I mean it has water views. There was so much natural light in the building. And so we thought well we were just going to make the ground floor and the first floor coworking to begin with. And that would have been about 18000 square feet on the first floor and another 12 down here on the ground level. But as we were moving ahead over the course of building it out, spaces were going from 15000 to 20000. It was a process of many many many months to lay all of this out and get the business up and running. And also a new user was coming in to the arena and that was an enterprise user. So whole companies of size that wanted to be able to come in and get right to work and not have to worry about working with a broker, working with a contractor, working with an architect building out their space.

: Entrepreneurs, companies who are in existence with multiple employees.

: And so at that point I decided to build out the second floor and make it part of the space. And I know that Kyle thought I was losing my mind because it brought us to 37000 square feet in the building for Versa. And it was far exceeded any of the competition. With that it's definitely slower to get members. When you're talking about that many square feet. We did manage to get in a whole company on the second floor. Singularity University is here. They moved in August 2018 and we're super excited to have them..

: They have all of the second floor?

: Yes.

: Because when we toured it a few months ago it wasn't quite completed. It was almost there and it was really just waiting for that enterprise.

: So they came in and made the decision relatively quickly which is really the essence of what coworking allows companies to do. It allows them to move fast and to get down to business quickly.

: So how do you think that's affected real estate and people signing five, 10 year leases? And I don't mean that just here, I mean the flex space, coworking space availability?

: Well you know it's scary when you're a growing company to sign a long term lease. When you've been in business for a long time and you've got lots of credit and financials to back up those positions and your growth is steady and you know where you're headed, then that makes sense. And we do see a lot of people who come in. Not as many now. But when we first opened, people really curious about what we were doing here, but just didn't understand what we were doing here. the sort of "Why would I do this when I can do that?".

: So there's been a huge learning curve in Columbus when we started. There was a learning curve for the brokers. There was a learning curve for landlords. There is a learning curve for architects in designing the spaces. And then of course the learning curve for the end user. So we had a lot to battle.

: One of the things though is that there have been some accounting changes where long term leases now have to be accounted for on the balance sheet. That can really be devastating for a small company. So if a small enterprise were to sign a five year lease, they have to put the entire five year lease on their balance sheet as a liability like a mortgage would be.

: And if they have a five year option on it they have to put that on it as well. So all of a sudden you have a tremendous liability against potentially a growing company. Where you may or may not know how fast you're going to grow, or if you're going to grow. And this can make a big difference in your ability to raise money. There are lots of different things. I'm not an accountant but I have researched this a lot because it makes a difference and we found that it makes a difference to the people who are here.

: We have a little bit more of a mature membership here. So people who have been in business for a little while. Not long, but long enough to know the direction that they really want to head and maybe have had some kind of space before. And are really ready to hit the ground but also to have a professional face on what they're trying to accomplish.

: People can walk in this building and have conference space and have had the things that they would have in their own long term lease space. So is this month to month?

: It can be. We have different membership levels and some of them can be month to month. So coworking can be month to month. We have what we call community membership which allows an individual or a company who has their own space, but at times needs to access spaces like this or conference room space. Somebody who really likes to perhaps work from home, but they have to meet clients and they can't do it at the dining room table, Panera or Starbucks. It's not appropriate for what they're doing. And so we have a community membership that allows those users to come in and have member pricing on all of our open spaces. And then also join us for all the fun stuff we do.

: So let's talk about some of the fun stuff. I mean I think that's that's a lot of the appeal. Besides not having a long term lease, but having a lot of great amenities at somebody's disposal for a great price every month that somebody can afford.

: So what are some of those amenities that people can look forward to a Versa?

: Well I like to start off with really what we talked about before which was design which makes a difference. Everybody who is starting a business is good at exactly what they're doing great. That doesn't mean that they're good at all of the other things that need to be done. You may be great at tech but terrible at H.R. Every entrepreneur in the world, every growing business, understands this point.

: A lot of people want a great space and great design. They can't afford it or they don't know how to do it. And so we get a lot of feedback just as people walk right through the doors and say "Wow the space is really beautiful and I really love the way it feels." We have heard that it feels much different from any of the other competitors. That has a lot more eclectic feel to it. So there's that that they got which already has a sort of a feel to it that is more professional and more beautiful than they may be able to afford or achieve on their own. We have a cafe of course which is right in the front and that includes drinks and snacks and lots and lots of coffee. We get all of our coffee from Crimson Cup. And it's a great hub for people to sort of come and go throughout their day. and great place to meet, say hello in the morning to each other, other entrepreneurs that are here.

: Because this does give these enterprise companies an opportunity to interact with other businesses and other minds. And connect on different levels.

: We do have happy hour on Thursday nights because why not?

: Because why not!

: Often we have it out on the balcony in the back where we can look over the water. It's also one of the amenities that we have. We have outdoor space here with great views and people really take advantage of it. We've really seen that of course over the summer months where people take their laptop and go sit under an umbrella on a beautiful day and get to spend their day working in that kind of an atmosphere. The other amenities that we have here includes lots of different conference spaces. So we have everything from four person spaces to 12 to 16 to a conversation room which can hold 50 comfortably. And then we have the studios. We have two studios on the lower level that are classroom style, and can hold up to 70 people in those spaces. So we have lots of different spaces available for people for whatever they might need.

: And is that available to nonmembers to rent that space out?

: Yes we have member and non-member availability for all of our spaces. So it's been a great opportunity for people to come in and see this space. And we've had lots of different organizations in here. And it's great to have everyone come and be a part of what we're doing. I think it would be very short sighted to not include the community at large in what we're trying to do here. And having this be an asset for Columbus. Being a member has its privileges. So we do have Member Pricing on things but yes we're very excited to welcome lots of different organizations to the space.

: I ask that because you sit on the edge of Grandview Heights and there's not a lot of meeting space that would hold 50 to 70 people. That space is really very limited and at a premium in the immediate community. But then you're also right on the edge of downtown and so I'm sure that you could really market that beautifully to some overflow meeting space for downtown meeting, convention attendees.

: We like to think that downtown is an amenity. And Grandview would be as well. This lovely community, lots of places where you can go and have a wonderful meal and all that is so close.

: Yes we have lots of people here that loved the idea of being downtown but don't want to be downtown.

: Parking

: Yes we do have free parking here, which is different from our competitor. Most of our competitors of size. We're getting ready to open our second location in the Arena District here in just the next couple of weeks.

: That was my next question, let's transition right into that. Let's talk about that. You're going to be right on Nationwide Boulevard?

: Nationwide and Neil.

: So you're right in the middle in the heart of the Nationwide Arena and the Clippers stadium, you are going to be right there. What a great space! So what will that be? How will that be different than this space, or will it mirror it?

: It will be a more intimate space. It's only 12000 square feet, so it's smaller. The building is just fantastic and the location is great. And there is parking on the site. So that is available to members. And that makes it a different kind of a space for the Arena District.

: Free parking?

: It's not free parking. But I do have that available right there for our members. We have about 46 spots there. Well I think be very very helpful.

: One of the things that we find in coworking rate is that not everybody is here every day. They come and go. Some people are here every day. But a lot of people aren't. People don't necessarily need a parking spot. All of the time. So we are we are really pushing the boundaries of flexibility inside of this business.

: And we're trying to pare all of that with great hospitality. So one of the other amenities I would say is that we have a hospitality director here who is really very dedicated to making sure that everyone's experience in the space is great. Everyone who has a board meeting or a vistage meeting or conference or whatever. All of their needs are taken care of.

: It's a very nice amenity to have somebody on staff.

: It really is. Because it allows you to come in and do what you need to do and not have to worry about it. So again it's one of those opportunities that we provide to business owners and entrepreneurs where it lets them do what they need to do and not worry about the other things. We'll take care of the other things. You get down to business. That's why you're here.

: I love that. I had no idea. I did read that you had hired people from the hospitality industry but I didn't realize that they were very focused on doing those types of things for your members. That is really special. I love that. So with the new Versa location, who will you be attracting to that space versus the space. Or will it just be the same marketing plan?

: We already have pre licensed several of those spaces. We have found that a lot are people who are living right there in the neighborhood. So they're coming out of the condominiums there or close by. They want to be able to walk to work. Maybe right now they're working from home. And very excited about not working from home anymore and having something that's just really right there.

: That location also has several offices that are larger sized. So we have a lot more 4, 5, 6, 8 person offices than we do here. We hear we have a lot of 1, 3, or larger size spaces sold out right away here in Grandview Heights. And so we built out some larger spaces there. And and we're getting a lot of traction on that. So people with four or five employees who once again if you want to be in the Arena District, and you have a small firm of four or five people, really where are you going to go?

: Right. And like you said and have the amenities of just beautiful office space that's very impressive to clients when you walk in and it may be something that they couldn't have if they were furnishing and decorating on their own. And it really is very impressive and atmospheric. So that's great. I love it here.

: And I can't wait to show our new space.

: I know I can't wait to see it.

: I'm really excited about it.

: I was asking on the way in about the big scroll on the top of the what's going to happen with that.

: We're working on that. We're working on that. So we keep scraping it down and with every layer it still says Business First, which is fine. We love Business First and we're excited. They've been very curious about what we have done inside the space, and we look forward to having them come and see what we've done. They're going to get the first peek at it. It's all in process, let's put it that way. We did get our name on the building last week. But we still have the Business First scroll on the top.

: But it's so noticeable that you know keeping doing something differently with it's going to be just great, because it's really noticeable. And eye catching.

: So how can people find out more about Versa?

: You can find us online. We're at Versa dot works. And we have lots of information there. You can stop in so we take walk ins and we have our staff who is here Monday through Friday from 8a to 6p, they're here. Give us a call. So we have you Amy Minahan who is our Director of the space here, and Oliver Coffey who you have met. Trey who is doing our business development and we're all having a lot of fun. So we would welcome anyone who wants to check out what this is all about to come and see.

: And you know not every space is right for every person.

: But that's the beauty of this.

: That's the beauty of this. There's lots to learn about this trend that's happening and we're late to the trend as far as in the United States. So as always, the coast go first. But we're picking up steam quickly. You know people are really figuring this out.

: And it's really going to be a nice way for people to connect with one another and to work either independently or in small groups or like I said in enterprises. But allows them to get done what they need to do, and not worry about the stuff, the distractions.

: The distractions, right, because you're taking care of that for them.

: Right.

: And so Versa dot works. I would really encourage everybody listening to stop in and meet the staff and see this space and take a look around because it really is beautiful and unique and I think there's something for just about everybody. So I would encourage everybody to come in. But thank you for joining us and giving us a little more insight and diversity and we look forward to the next one opening soon.

: Yes, thank you.

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Revolution Experiment

revolution experiment
: [00:00:25] Hi there This is Michelle Wilson I'm the executive director with the tri Village Chamber partnership. And you're listening to our podcast business inspirers. I'm really excited to have Mark Tinus with me today. Mark is with the revolution experiment and karate cowboy is one of the brands so we're going to talk a little bit about both of those things and all of those things and you today. So we're going to start out with you. OK and talk about what Mark wanted to be when you grow up.

: [00:00:51] Ooh. Well that's that's evolved a lot. Let's say it this way. I graduated from Ohio State back in 2000 as a mechanical engineer.

: [00:01:03] So when I was getting going I was really looking at you know how to work in a factory and work and operations and that was the life goal that I had for myself and really didn't have much vantage point outside of that until I started to travel. So when I started my career was with Anheuser-Busch in the burring department here in Columbus here in Columbus has a big big brewery up 71 there. And then they ended up promoting me and moving me out to the brewing department in Newark New Jersey. And so actually as I left Ohio and kind of broadened my horizons a little bit it kind of opened up a lot of doors and opportunities and I knew I didn't want to be on call 24/7 in a manufacturing facility.

: [00:01:45] My entire life as I've watched all my bosses and whatnot grow up so I went back to grad school at night at NYU and learned about this small profession called management consulting and so that was really kind of my entry point into oh wow there's this whole big business world out there beyond just making beer at the time which was all they really knew. So I got into consulting got into the consulting clubs and then when I left Anheuser I got into corporate and marketing strategy consulting. So I was actually working for a small boutique agency in Manhattan. But our base was in London. And so I traveled a lot. Did a lot in Western Europe and Africa South America just doing branding projects working for global spirits companies like Bacardi and their portfolio consists of like Grey Goose and Dewars and my guess which is a bunch of brands like that.

: [00:02:42] So it was kind of one of those ones where it wasn't necessarily part of the plan but it was a hell of a ride.

: [00:02:48] So yeah just kind of kept going on it.

: [00:02:50] That's amazing novel and curious you racked up and then eventually my wife was like I'd love to see you like in the house more and not on planes.

: [00:03:00] So I took one small step down so I took a job as a marketing director within our in North America and South America team. So I actually had 40 some odd markets in the Caribbean South America Central America that I was working on everything but Heineken was kind of what I always told people. So it was all the local brands if you've ever vacation in like the Bahamas there's a brand called Callick. I worked on that brand St. Lucia. There's a brand called Petone I worked on that brand and Panama Suriname bunch of others. And so that was a fun ride too. But that really opened my eyes to was I love the world of marketing but I loved the world of marketing strategy even more. And so I really got into this whole marketing on a budget philosophy because every one of my markets was an island or a small country and you know I would get to come back to a boardroom in New York and talk about two million dollar budgets for one campaign for the U.S. and I would be fighting for 20000 dollars to put up a billboard in Haiti. Right. And so I'm like you know these were so we had to think a little bit more creatively it became a more holistic model of of looking at brand building and needs to be really insightful about local culture and you know if you're if you're talking about a national brand of Haiti that is 99 percent market share and you're dealing with a public of you know a population of 10 million people but their net income is a dollar a day and your beers cost 50 cents.

: [00:04:31] What do you do. All right. How do you market that product you're not fighting another competitor because you're 99 percent market share you're not. You're not trying to you know steal all this disposable income because there isn't a lot of disposable income so what you'd like turn that into is a philosophy of business building and brand building where you started talking about economic stimulus and it's not about stealing their 50 cents a day it's about growing their income by 50 cents a day. So they have disposable income right. So we took a very cool approach to it. Heineken was a great playground because they were very loose and let us kind of explore and do much different things with it. And so that's really where I kind of got my teeth cut on. Wow. This isn't about like fill in Box A B and C this is about really getting out of your own comfort zone and doing different things. And once I kind of had a nibble that I was kind of addicted and then it just became very frustrated in corporate America. It was like I got to go start something.

: [00:05:29] And here you are. Now I'm here. So I have to go back for a minute because it's fascinating that you worked for for large brands and you were you were you would think have deep pockets and you were fighting for pennies of those budgets.

: [00:05:44] Well and it's all like It's all relative right. So when you're working for huge brands with huge you know revenue streams they're going to allocate budget to where they think the potential is and things like that. And you know if you're if you're talking about brands that really could grow but have to grow in innovative ways it's not something you're going to sink a bunch of budget towards because you know what's what's the goal of 100 percent market share. Brand You know you want to grow but you don't want. You know we're also in the alcohol industry. We don't want overconsumption. We want premium ization. We want to better people's lives. So you know there's a limit point to where you don't want to over invest in markets that are sure that don't have a ton of potential to grow.

: [00:06:28] And when I tell people I worked for Heineken and people's like eyes pop up now what a great huge company that you have that you worked with and it was always like shocking to folks to know that you know Heineken has a portfolio of brands in the U.S. alone. When I was there it was about less than 5 percent market share really. So for Heineken Koseki staccato which are all the brands that we had here in the U.S. you know all that summed up was was you know less than 5 percent. And so coming from Anheuser-Busch who is nearly 50 percent of the market. By the time I left I mean that's a you know light years difference in business size and how they and how they grow now globally there are much bigger brand. I worked a lot with a team in Mexico because they were their major those brands are very large in Mexico but it's always like kind of all that point of relativity right. We know our sandbox and folks are like Heineken huge in America and I'd say we make 10 times our money in Mexico right. That's because they're just the size of the business in Mexico and so it's it's always been this industry. So even though I've bounced around a ton in this industry is just super interesting because literally you go down any rabbit hole and there's you know there's brands there's categories there's you know times of when people are consuming products. And so to me it's just an ever changing like constant evolving thing that we get to get to explore every single day in school.

: [00:07:57] And I think it's also interesting that you went back to school and you still ended up in the beverage industry. You know you kind of it seems like this has been your hover of where you've spent. My

: [00:08:08] Wife has said I've never grown up out of the frat house. Yeah.

: [00:08:12] It's how to spin a multi decade career and never growing up and when you are 19 or 21 I mean 21 21.

: [00:08:19] That's exactly what you need to know.

: [00:08:21] That is interesting and also that you've been to all these exotic places and you came back to Columbus Ohio. Absolutely. Two really cool things. Yeah the Columbus story is great.

: [00:08:30] We get that question all the time which is oh you know Tess City USA you'd like our business which I'm sure we'll get to is very very innovation driven.

: [00:08:39] We're trying to do things outside of our category norms so we get that question about Columbus a lot and I go I've met my wife here in 2000 and this was the place we always called home. You know I was nine years on the East Coast and we were always like Oh when are we going to go home. You know like in nine years I mean that starts to tell you something about where you should live and where you're ultimately going to you know go back to raise your kids like you were raised and so there's something about the heartland you know people people that you want to get.

: [00:09:10] It must be the water. I don't know. But people do tend to want to come back. Yeah. You know and you raise their kids here like you said so. And certainly a great place to start a business. Absolutely. So let's let's talk a little bit about how you made the transition into starting a revolution is it's getting a lot of brick walls and a lot of headaches is probably the best way to put it.

: [00:09:31] I think the first person that said that yeah I'm just feel like we've all done this. This conversation changes when it goes from coffee to cocktails. But yes you know it's early in the morning. You drinking coffee.

: [00:09:46] Yeah.

: [00:09:48] You know I like I think most entrepreneurs got well educated in an industry and you know felt that whole 90 percent prepared to get into it when reality is we were probably about 10 percent prepared to get into it and that little bit of ignorance is what drives you to keep going forward. So you keep finding out things because if I would have had to talk to myself three years ago I don't know if I would have had the stomach three years ago to continue doing what we're doing. But luckily I didn't know that. So I just kept going.

: [00:10:18] But yeah I mean we I started working on this brand for karate cowboy with just kind of the intention of doing all the things that I had seen shot down in innovation departments for companies that I had worked on.

: [00:10:31] So big companies were always looking at innovative new trends and where to go. But you know for them to invest in a startup type idea like that is hit or miss where somebody like myself could go and start something like that and they could come in and buy it and then there assurance of success goes up dramatically. Right.

: [00:10:52] And to them that that investment in a two year old brand versus starting it up themselves is almost negligible to them. And so I saw that as a space you know someone that wants to get out of of corporate decision making and kind of start my own thing. I wanted to get into that and so I was looking at trends and all the wonderful market research things that we did at Heineken on what categories can we explore. I obviously like had kind of an affinity to international brands international categories. And it kind of fell in love with the social aspects of socky. And so I started exploring socky and why it hasn't really blown up in the U.S. the way that it could and how consumers really viewed that category and where the evolution was going to go. So on the research side it was all about Asian fusion and the progress of Asian food in America and how it's growing and culinary usually leads beverage by you know three to five years or so.

: [00:11:53] And so as you see the sprout up of other cool Ohio based entrepreneurs who are doing things like fusion sushi and tons of the different fusion restaurants that are coming out of Cleveland but not you know going statewide and going even even region wide you know those are super indicative of where where folks are getting kind of socialized into it because you know 15 years ago if we were having this conversation tequila wouldn't have been in a mainstream bar would have been in a Mexican joint. Right. Just saying you know you wouldn't have gone to happy hour and Grandview Avenue and seen taco tuesday at every single bar. Right. Like that's not that wasn't an acculturation factor that played into the Midwest pretty even. You know American culture. But if you looked at how fish tacos were blowing up in California and then it kind of like spread. And we always said there's always these wonderful correlations that you can study on like how acculturation works in America. We always looked at Mexican beer on and correlated it to avocado consumption. So markets and avocados were being consumed at probably meant there was a lot of places serving guacamole probably meant there was a lot of places that were serving Mexican beer. And so it was that like blew up in guacamole wasn't just in random you know Mexican restaurants. And you didn't get it at any any place. You know tequila grew Mexican beard grew. So on and so forth. So we were looking at that kind of as our fore sight of like all right now let's look at Asian culture Asian fusion and figure out how we can kind of Americanized the socky category in a way.

: [00:13:28] And one of the big things that I was looking at when we were starting that up was. How do consumers behave with socky right. Like it's it's right now it's just so ingrained in a sushi restaurant culture either you know folks know hot or cold you know socky bombs they know. You know is it cloudy is it not. Those are the kind of the education stream of where we're psyche's gone but not a lot of folks are going to socky tastings like they are going to wine tastings and really understanding that it's very similar actually like education trail instead of grapes you're talking rice and rice polish. You're talking water just like you are with wine. It's all about regions in Japan. So there is this like very kind of connoisseurship like play to socky which is how they've grown that category to date. We were trying to shortcut that by not saying like hey we're going to go around and do these socky Education Tours. Rather let's look at how other categories have grown through like calk cocktail culture through mainstream bar use. Right. And let's fix some of those fundamental like product issues with socky. And so when we got into that it was all right. Shelf life is a problem for buyers because they open it it's like wine. People are trying to drink like spirits meaning like have a little bit put it in a cocktail or five ounce six pounds.

: [00:14:49] Right.

: [00:14:49] And if you are going to go and get a socky pour in a on sushi restaurant you're not getting the whole bottle right like you're getting. They're pouring it in a socky teeny or they're doing a cocktail with it. Well in shelf life becomes an issue because if you pour out of the bottle on Monday and it taste different on Wednesday now your cocktails program is all out of sorts right. Or if you have to throw it away by Friday. Now your waist and you know the bar economics don't work. So that was kind of issue number one for us was like let's fix shelf life. Issue number two is let's simplify because the cocktails using it as an ingredient we're doing multiple pours. So we were trying to combine all that under one umbrella and then also you know the kind of the biggest entity for me was really trying to just

: [00:15:35] Socialize it in the spirit world because a lot of folks had the misconception that it was a sphere are ready. You know for the good bad and indifferent of it all folks were like Oh it's it's you know it's not 40 percent alcohol and you're like nuts it's like Rice wants 13 to 15 percent alcohol. And so we were just trying to kind of almost create a product that fit the already current existing perception so that we weren't having to educate over the top to get them away from that perception. OK.

: [00:16:03] And so that's where a worker like Albert came from a fusion of American and Japanese which is karate and Cowboy was a little tongue in cheek. We laughed a lot when we came up with and we're like actually is kind of picture perfect for what we're trying to say and we're like you know that's you know not taking ourselves too seriously but really trying to accentuate the two cultures that are that are represented in it. So we took socky from the Kobe region of Japan which I went over there and scoped out quite a few facilities but we have a great supply relationship over there now. We picked the Kobe Osaka region because they were a little sweeter Saki's less dry. And then we combine it with with the six times distilled grain neutral which is which is a corn based liquor. If we would filter it'd be a vodka if you'd put it in a barrel it's whiskey like it's kind of one of those mentalities. But we're taking it you know and it's unfinished perspective combining it all and then filtering it. So you know I always say I would love to just be able to say it's kind of like vodka socky right. Make it a lot easier for people to understand.

: [00:17:11] But in technical terms what we're doing is we're taking you know an unfinished sphere combining it with our psyches and then finishing it as if it would be a vodka. But by standards we can't go that so. So that's what we that's the product that we create and it creates its own kind of category it's got a lot of floral and and creamy notes that you'd expect out of a socky. But it is that 40 percent alcohol that added alcohol gives us the shelf life back so it can behave just like a vodka can and doesn't spoil it doesn't start to degrade over time doesn't have to be refrigerated yet idiota and so it kind of ticks all those boxes that we were really trying to fix with the product to kind of match up to the way consumers were viewing that category. So that's that was the the deck that we put together three years ago. Now where that's like evolve to has been crazy but. But you know that's that was the initial thinking behind why we created all this. It wasn't just two people sitting in a room being like let's make Zake.

: [00:18:14] Now the thing.

: [00:18:15] Well you mentioned the social part of it and I'm interested in that because did you mean the social part of it in regards to when you indicated that you didn't want to change people's perception but you wanted to work with their perception is that what you mean.

: [00:18:29] Yes I mean I think I think the when you're looking at the alcohol industry as a whole I mean like we're we're really trying to promote like we say this at Heineken all the time we were social networks before we were social networking before computers existed right. Right. You'd go to the pub you'd meet up with people and chat. And that's where you met new people. So maybe you met their husband or wife at a bar. You are the right guy is a social lubricant as well of sorts with the liquid. But it's about consumption like occasion and and how we how we pull it together. Socky is that and ceremoniously is that for in Japan. And so when we were looking at it it was very much so celebratory. It was a huge part of wedding ceremonies. It was a huge part of hanging socky barrel when you open a new business. It's similar to kind of like what we do when we you know smash a champagne bottle on a boat right. Right. Like you know a big part of the alcohol industry is kind of intertwining and those like celebratory social occasions. And if we wanted to embrace that just like I think most companies want to embrace even even down to the brewpub level of just having of a location where you can bring people together enjoy one thing not make it too serious you know. Right. But give folks that playground to meet new people and share experiences with old friends. Right.

: [00:19:50] So absolutely. Yeah. Is anybody else out there doing socky that you know of when you started there.

: [00:19:57] Yeah there are a few. All international. They there was one company kind of doing a similar thing to us with vodka in Amsterdam and they're still doing pretty well out in Europe and Asia. And then there was actually a mixology competition where folks are coming up with innovative products and there was a Jen Psaki blend that came out of the U.K. about three years ago or so still relatively light Neish as a market.

: [00:20:26] But a lot of folks are playing with it. It's more it's less brands are doing it. But you're starting to see unlike the mixology world and especially on the coasts it getting incorporated into more and more high level cocktail making. OK.

: [00:20:41] Which is really where we want to kind of promote the brand and and push it because it does just add a very unique twist to things that you know. It's no different than a chef finding a new ingredient. It's you know it just adds to the breadth of what folks can do. Right. And that's kind of where we've played in the angle and then locally here we have a ton of great spirits producers like popping up and all doing really cool things and it's you know that becomes the question all along is like how money can we sustain in this market how can we do this and you know if you view it as the community that we're building here you know we're doing what we're doing Middle West is doing what they're doing watersheds got their you know perspective you've got new new distilleries popping up in Indiana with noble cut. You've got 451 and Clintonville everything here new and new and here it is.

: [00:21:31] Yeah. Malins hi hi bank high but I think it's showing great guys and their place looks amazing are ready to keep driving by hoping I can catch a glimpse.

: [00:21:41] I know that you know they're hard at work. Adam and Jordan team are they're great guys and you know but we're all we all are focused on growing the industry right.

: [00:21:53] So Central High is really gaining a great reputation as having some world class distilleries in Switzerland.

: [00:22:00] Yeah I mean when we did we did we we just won a couple of three medals all three of our products at the San Francisco World competition in 2017 which has been great. You know we've we've loved that because it's an accolade for us that helps to put us on the map. You know we it's exactly the question you just asked which is who else is doing what we're doing. Not a lot. Which is great. Is an innovative company you want to kind of be on your own as a reference point company. It's really difficult right.

: [00:22:34] Because if I made a vodka I could say well you know if it tastes like it's mine right like it's different like this or we want it to be smooth or we want it to have these notes we want it to be this right when nobody has a point of reference of what your liquid is. It's really tough to start educating folks on what it should taste like or why that's quality or what. You know as you bring into it. So competition is like that helped to put us on the map because we're you know you're going to 40 key tasters that are familiar with every single style and they're just basically judging you on the merit of. Are you making a good product. Like it's not. It's not like oh I'm a gin drinker and I like it better or worse than gin. It's. It's you know are we taking the time and the diligence to make a really quality product that fits the style that we're trying to go after. And and we've got good accolades for it.

: [00:23:25] I read that it was there were over 2000 entries and it was a blind tasting. So absolutely yes. Really.

: [00:23:32] And in three years you've started something and you're winning medals which is that and to be honest with you it's again it all draws back to community.

: [00:23:40] We you know when I was coming up with this brand in a in a basement in Brooklyn you know we were looking at all of our network.

: [00:23:50] And so when I when I was creating it we were came time to talk about the actual manufacturing and putting together the products we used. I use my network to to kind of find us a good distiller in Louisville. OK. You know the time.

: [00:24:03] So if you look at my timeline I left Columbus in 2006 and got back in 15.

: [00:24:11] So those nine years as everybody here is very familiar with. It was a pretty drastic change right. Like it and I felt a little bit like back to the future as I like walked out.

: [00:24:21] I'm like What is this. This is this is short notice. I can't change if you're got one.

: [00:24:27] So yeah I mean it's a massive change so I didn't my network was very small. None of these craft distilleries existed in Columbus and in 2006 so you know so I didn't really know what I was coming back to. Like I said we were really moving to call on this because we wanted to live in Columbus and so we had a distilling partnership when I started this three years ago in Louisville because we're like it's the Mecca right. Louisville Kentucky horse that's what you makers. I mean this is where you should be if you're going to create a quality product. Well lo and behold I mean it's like anything else. It takes good people with good execution and you know investing in the right things and you find good and bad in every community right. And in that regard and the more and more I actually created a good relationship with Ryan Lang over Middle West and we started jamming on the fact of you know it started at a bar like also so we're sitting there drinking it still happens we were sitting there drinking it. At North High brewing and he turned to me and he goes Why are you making drives down to Louisville to make like small tweaks to your product and doing this this and this.

: [00:25:36] And I was like I God it's because we just needed to get it done and we thought we had a really good relationship with. We didn't have a really good relationship with our with our distillery down on the hill and it just came time to pick it apart and say like what can we do this better and you know Ryan was super confident that he could. They've done a lot with investing in their place and they make some really great products. And so we just started picking it apart. And so a year and a half later we moved all our production in-house with them here in Columbus. Now that's been a love that collaborative. Absolutely. That's amazing. Well I mean it just it's. It's always one of those things and I'm you know I'm kind of a soul founder sitting around so having even a sounding board with you know the team over there. And I think that a lot of folks just don't realize how collaborative we all are when we have ideas and it's like what. Did you try that. Like we tweak this and you know we tweak the process and so you know that was about a year ago now we've been with them for a year.

: [00:26:35] There's a few there's a few. I mean they have some beautiful. So good for you.

: [00:26:39] And so we got that done. And those were actually the first spirits that we pulled off the line at Middle West were the ones that we competed with.

: [00:26:49] And it's just and I think folks that have seen our evolution or have tried our products have seen like how we've evolved even as a company and you never want to say like the first thing that you ever did was worse than anything else and you did. But you know progress is good and learning how people experience your product and cleaning it up and you know we went from a flavors only company to you know doing pure spirits and really like bringing back the genuine genuine nature of what we're doing as a product base and Middle West was a pivotal part of us being able to do that you know without ten million dollars and build our place.

: [00:27:25] And they're smart guys.

: [00:27:27] Exactly what's been doing and they're very good at what they do. So great partnership definitely. Yeah fantastic. So tell me the three the three main flavors.

: [00:27:37] Sure. We. So we started actually again kind of coming back to that insight base was we kind of wanted to create some buzz and some attention and do some of our most radical stuff up front. So we actually launched a honey wasabi blend sweet and spicy sounds very radical. A lot of folks you know it's definitely a wasabi notes are really strong in it. So we and by intention we normalize it by doing a ton of bloody marys with it. So you know folks get that horseradish spice notes to it but it also came from the culinary world sweet spicy.

: [00:28:13] There was a lot of Asian fusion restaurants that were doing this kind of honey base your main dishes and wasabi based side so that they could you know blend those two flavor profiles together so we were kind of taking that to heart.

: [00:28:26] Then we launch I think a more mass appeal flavor which was ginger mint. So obviously plays up very well on that mojito annual world which in just a moment are really great for flavor profiles within there. And then third which is very backwards in the way that we talk about the brand now was our natural like unflavored base and kind of two reasons for that one was you know

: [00:28:49] We learned a lot as a flavor company and we really wanted folks to be more educated on what our base spirit was because we didn't want people to think again without a reference point. What am I chasing the base spirit or is it the flavors that you're adding. We needed we needed our own reference point. I think for lack of a better term. But then too was actually the distilling capabilities right. Like I always like politically incorrectly say when you launch an unflavored version it's like running through the park naked you'd better be a pretty flawless right to be able to be able to show that off.

: [00:29:24] Right.

: [00:29:25] And so that was really we could not get to that level with where we were in Louisville. And we tried we just weren't getting there. And I think that's a that's a tough decision. Sometimes when you want to put a product out in market but you have to be really honest with yourself that it's maybe not ready to go yet and delay and delay. But then we got it out great.

: [00:29:48] And now that's kind of our and probably seemed like a long time. But it's only been three separate in terms I mean I think that's why I'm fascinated by the learning and the growing and the changing. I mean within three years the awards are winning in three short years that's pretty amazing. Yeah. Well thank you. And before we wrap up I want to talk quickly about simple times absolutely. You launched a new line.

: [00:30:09] We did. Yeah and I mean that's that was the birth of again. You know it just kind of constantly learning.

: [00:30:15] We were out in the market with karate cowboy so much with trying to educate people on the cocktail culture of it all and you know I would go to an event and we'd make a thousand cocktails and people would love the cocktail and the best we could ever do for them was hand them a recipe card that said go home and you know squeeze pineapples and ginger and lemon and Lyman. Yes. You're going to go in and then get a confused look back and you know an angry grunt and then they leave.

: [00:30:44] You know so what we well we call me. That was a big event last night. And so yeah we.

: [00:30:52] So we kind of took that inside to Heart which was it came more from an internal need for us which was we need to be able to make consistent real all natural cocktails that promote spirits brands in the best possible light without just pumping it full of sugar and fructose where it just overshadows the spirits barrier. Because you know if I took an overly sugared mass you know ball of liquid and then just throw any alcohol into it it's going to overshadow it's all going to taste the same. Jada and sugar negates bad alcohol. So that's essentially why those are created the way that they're created right is is put the least common denominator in and it's still going to taste good. Well we kind of take the perspective of it's time to grow up right. Folks aren't going and just buying the worst possible liquor to put in their stuff for their house parties and therefore they're buying mixers though that overshadow that purchase that they've just made. If you're spending 10 extra dollars for a bottle of liquor will then respect your cocktail and make it a better cocktail. Right. So we took that vantagepoint on it.

: [00:31:56] We started creating mixes that were not only like freshly crafted with 100 percent all natural ingredients but then we say surprisingly simple there. I affectionately use the term dump and go cocktails which are literally bring your vodka bring your bourbon bring your champagne yet put it in our mix and you've got a craft cocktail and that's like just intended to kind of marry the convenience and quality factors that folks who really want to go after and you shouldn't have to sacrifice one for the other. And so that's really where the birth of simple times came from. And that one is only six months old and that's evolved we went from three flavors of that to now we're at I think 13 or 14 are you I would like started to launch out. It was really awesome because we were able to to kind of grow that and bolster it through farmers markets and I would say like real life market research which is put something in front of somebody they taste it they buy it. We like it. Let's put that up. Let's figure out a new flavor that can fit in that line.

: [00:32:56] And so we've been super flexible with you know we're only limited by the fresh produce we can bring in. Right. And so what you are looking for is you know to evolve this even bigger. Do more partnerships do more collaboration. So you see things like we'll be back in the farmers market scene but now now we're you know we've got a lot of mules and lemonades that are that are now selling in grocery stores across we just did a collaboration Shandi with North High where they're using our blood orange lemonade. We're using their gold and they'll put them together. Now you've got an all local Shandi you know and so you'll see much more of that coming out of this brand with those three tenants that I kind of always talk about with as a freshly crafted simple but then home grown. And so that has to we have to live that ethos which is not only worked with other local businesses in collapsing and doing all these things but also how do we integrate ourselves better in the local agricultural community and work with local farmers and do a real stem to stern vertically and horizontally on how we can work well with everybody because that's a good reason to believe. I mean there's I think one of the challenges when you were looking at brands and were growing things from Columbus specifically. We can't all of us as business owners we can't just flag local because we have a building and we're and we're local. We have to really look intrinsically. Why does it matter that we're making this in Columbus Ohio. If we're ever going to get a national stage presence for what we're doing right.

: [00:34:27] And I think with simple times when I look at our competitors that are coming out of Brooklyn coming out of California you know there reason to believe is their cool hip cities that are doing mixology right. Our reason to believe is we've got awesome agriculture in the Midwest. We grow this stuff. We should have the freshest most real ingredient products coming out and people should understand that and we're going to be knowledge for agriculture you know and that's what people think of when they think of Ohio or Midwestern.

: [00:34:57] Absolutely. We can rest our hats on it and go where are you.

: [00:35:01] Where are you growing those strawberries in the fire escape in Brooklyn. Right absolutely. We have it here and we should be promoting that and we should be pushing it out on a national stage so where people know that you don't fly over these places. You get great products from these places and that's what we're that's the mission that we're really trying to push out there with simple times because I think it's I think it's time and I think it's you know honestly I think it's a great product but everybody else can go it is a great.

: [00:35:29] But that's what we really need. That's really where we're we're coming after. It's a huge departure for us as a business because now we own all that manufacturing.

: [00:35:37] We're doing that all ourselves so to speak comes in really handy with the.

: [00:35:43] Kinko's my dad's happy because I can use an engineering degree right. Yeah. It wasn't four years of waste. Yeah.

: [00:35:52] So yeah that's yeah that's wonderful. Well I love it. I'm so happy for you guys and such great success in a short period of time I know you have many many more great things to come. Where can we find simple times and revolution experiment called cowboy where.

: [00:36:05] Yeah well check out either one of our websites karate cowboy spirit Dom or simple times mixers Dom there's a map with store locators on all of them but quite a few we're in about 20 now. Groceries slash liquor stores for simple times Wilens market and Clintonville 1837 and Chateau wine and spirits for New Albany and Polaris were working with hills markets both locations I saw Twisted Vine twisted vinegar and Huffman's and U.A. Huffer for the tri village.

: [00:36:40] So yeah that's that's been going very very well. New went out in Wellington speckled and has a great great shop in Old Worthington and then you'll see that the farmers markets this summer Dublin Westerville Burlington Grandville so it will be all around those different places.

: [00:36:58] And then we have an online shop too so check out the surf shop and you'll be dig this and will be a dig fest showing off both of our. Yeah that's great.

: [00:37:07] Yeah and karate cowboy most most local liquor stores essentially state agencies would have us. So yeah and Tess's.

: [00:37:13] Thank you so much for telling us the story. And I would encourage everybody to get out there and all of those places and pick some things up and have some cocktails.

: [00:37:22] Appreciate it.

Destination Grandview

destination grandview
: Hi this is Michelle Wilson I'm the executive director with the tri Village Chamber partnership and you're listening to business inspirers and today I'm very excited to have my friend Brian cheek with me. Brian is the executive director of Destination Grand View. Thanks for joining me. Thank you. Happy to be here. So this is a little different because we are typically talking to entrepreneurs who have started a business from the ground up and we talked about you know what got them there and their passion. So I decided which him talk about me today. Now I'm Jerry. We're going to talk all about you and and your your background and how you did get to Destination Grand View and where you'd like to see it go. We'll get there eventually so I would love to know where you came from and would you grow up here in Columbus.

: Sure. I grew up in northwest Ohio in a small town called St. Henry Ohio. That's about two hour drive from here and I moved here for college. I started at Columbus State because I really wasn't sure what I wanted to do. Did about a year and a half there and then decided I wanted to go continue and get a four year degree. After about six major changes I ended up with a communications degree from Ohio Dominican.

: Okay great. So did communication. So I mean where did that leave you I mean did you think I want to do this in a specific industry or no I just had open options.

: I sort of picked the major because it was so open and knowing my personality that I wanted the flexibility to change throughout my career path which I have and that degree did give me that flexibility.

: Ok so you changed a few times. What did you think you wanted to do when you were younger and starting out.

: In first grade I wanted to be an artist OK. My parents save everything and I just found this piece of paper that says I was going to be an artist and my work would be shown in Chicago.

: Wow. So that's very specific so that's what I originally I guess wanted it to be because I know you asked that question at each episode. That's what I started out when I graduated from college though I really wasn't sure and I went into sales because my background I had worked through college putting myself through college working retail jobs throughout Columbus and as well as restaurant jobs and all those types of service industry jobs so I knew that I wanted to kind of home skills into a sales role. And so that was the first job out of college I actually worked for a small computer company right down the road here on Dublin road called retro box and Internet. And I did some international development for them. OK. And then changed careers again went back to retail and then went back into corporate sales again at the Columbus Dispatch. And there I decided that I would didn't want to do sales anymore and I wanted to do something really community minded and go into the nonprofit world. And I was lucky enough to get into experience Columbus which then started my path down tourism. So as you can see the communications degree did help me bounce around a little bit. But I found my really my setting and working for a nonprofit specific to Columbus area.

: Great. And of course I also worked at experience Columbus and we have a lot of friends in common. And that place has really been pivotal in so many people's lives and perhaps changing their career paths because they get there and they realize that there's so much about this city that's undiscovered and that's really wonderful.

: And it's been it's been a it's been a great thing for me because it did get me to where I am with the chamber as well. Absolutely. I agree. But certainly you know it's I know you didn't state experience Columbus you had a couple of other experiences in between there and where you are now also.

: So from experience Columbus I went to the election center for the Arts for a little while and did some sponsorship and development and membership there and then I went to the Ohio history connection and did marketing for that statewide organization. So they have 50 plus history sites throughout the state. So that was great because then I was on the other side of the tourism world. I was on the attractions side. I understood how the museum worked their stress points you know being low on staff often. And how do you get things done or how do you market to a wide variety of audiences throughout the state. Sure. So some great marketing exposure there too. So I was pretty content there until this job opened up at destination Grandview which is the great opportunity one that doesn't come along very often. And so I felt like I could take everything I had learned in membership and tourism sales that experience Columbus as well as the everything I learned on the attraction side of things into this role and take my tourism skills even further.

: So what was it that was so desirable about this position. I mean besides all of the experience that you could bring to it but it's a small growing organization. You came in when it was they were really trying to take the next step to take destination maybe to the next level and give it more exposure.

: So well first and foremost I loved Grandview so I thought anything that I had done in my past if I followed my passion it was going to be successful. I felt like I was going to be a win win for myself and the organization. So right away I always loved Green VOA for a variety of reasons. You know I came over her study Dustoff in college and hung out here all the time in college. A lot of first dates here in college I filio and places like that. So that's really first and foremost. I was like Oh that's a great area and that should be on the map for years and they should be getting some of the tourism dollars. And with the addition of the second hotel and the grand event center in the ground the yard I knew that they were positioning themselves to foray into that market.

: Absolutely. And so you mentioned going back to the very beginning of your answer you mentioned bringing your passion to something. What is your passion if you could identify a couple.

: So as far back as college when I moved to Columbus I just fell in love with everything local. And it wasn't that easy then to find things local it was sort of you know now it's just everywhere. Everything's local. We're hyper local but at the time you know in the mid 90s there the local thing was sort of there but wasn't celebrated as much. And so one of my first jobs in college was actually had hired Designer Craftsmen a show of hands which was that lean on a shopping center of Arlington. And I really learned how to promote those local artists and I saw the value in what they were doing and then I saw the value in the service that we were providing to the community of exposing them to this great artwork being created by people in Ohio. So I've always sort of had that in me. And so that's what really brought me into wanting to wanting this position even more because it's something I've always done is celebrated local and this was the way to do it and a great community.

: Well that's that's awesome. So what are the differences with destination going to you when you first started and now a couple of years down the road what have you done to grow the organization.

: Ok so a couple of things that I did right off the bat was to sort of start packaging things in the area. So you know we have great microbreweries and tap rooms. So packaging those but also packaging them in a way so that a visitor coming into the hotel would be able to find them in an easy manner. So we have some brochure cards at the hotels promoting those bars and breweries and restaurants and things with the distance from the hotel so that we really take that sort of proximity thing out of it so people realise that there's this great neighbourhood you know within a mile within walking distance from their hotel.

: So that was one thing we did right off the bat was package things for the immediate visitor coming in the door during sort of leisure traveler business traveler sure and proximity kind of took that piece out of it to not be intimidating to the visitor but proximity is a huge deal for the Grandview area specifically because the proximity to downtown Columbus to the Short North arts district to the Arena District is amazing.

: I mean we we are positioned Grandview is positioned beautifully to draw some of those visitors in from even downtown and conventions that are taking place there is that accurate absolutely every every promotion that we do that's a national promotion we make sure that we use just those places in all of our advertisements so we always say Ohio State downtown the Arena District in the Short North arts district of course. So we always try to position ourselves in a way that people can link us to those destinations that they might be coming in for that there's this great neighbourhood right next door or to stay in and then visit those neighbours as well yeah good.

: So what do you do to market the area. I mean what are your primary initiatives. The green View area is not huge shirt. So thinking that it could really be a destination might be difficult for some people who are somewhat familiar with the area like you know when go going. What are you going to do with view.

: So when starting I'm trying to find out I've been in a position about a year year and a half now. So one of the things I've been doing since I started is to try to find the right markets for us and trying to keep our feet in all those markets and try to figure out what is the fit. Where does Grandview fit and says some of the markets that we've looked at doing our weddings for instance which I love that market for the entire neighborhood because you can do everything from get your imitations up Peabody paper on Grandview avenue you can have a great rehearsal dinner at the Avner's steak restaurant you could have a bachelorette party down at Hofstra house and then you could stay at the hotel and obviously have your wedding at the grand event centre so it really a wedding has the most economic impact for the entire area. So that's one market I went after right away because they felt like that was one that would speak to so many people and affect us all in a positive manner and then also tour bus market that's another market that I've always been involved in way back since experience Colombus so that market we go after and typically that when we've done a lot of partnerships I'm all about partnerships and locally I work still with closely with experience Columbus and others DVDs on trying to attract that bus market here.

: We're not necessarily going to get them to always stay overnight here but we will get them through to perhaps TOPIK cream and that's due to her Watershed Distillery. Those types of things so we're always keeping our keeping them in our vision and then the other markets would be of course for leisure traveller which we retail a lot I feel through social media we have a really strong Instagram presence of over 13000 followers on just Instagram and growing so I think we reach a lot of the leisure travelers through those through our social media efforts and then meeting in event planners with the grand event centre. It's a great venue for those conferences and conventions but also another thing that I recently completed was a Event Centre document so I package all of the great event spaces in Grandview and there are some really great ones that I don't think a lot of people were even aware of that you could maybe rent this restaurant out or this museum has a downstairs conference centre that you can rent out. So we package all those details that are specific to meeting planners that they want to know about how many rounds will fit in the room. This kind of detailer onto one document and then we'll push that out through social media as well and it's also downloadable on our website.

: It is downloadable that going to be next. Absolutely.

: And then if you need specific information about any of those venues I have a entire database. Now all those details like if they accept outside caterers that type of thing so you can always reach out to me directly and I'll help you with that.

: Great. I know going back to my many many years ago to experience Colombus we attended. I was within the bus market so we attended trade shows you know to try to educate people on everything Columbus had to offer. Is that something you're doing but on a smaller level.

: Sure absolutely. Back to partnerships. So locally I am working with experience Calmas and other CVB. But on a statewide effort we have a program called Ohio has it which is a co-op of CVB and attractions went together to focus on the bus market as a state. So we co-op our dollars together so that we can send an attendee to those conferences throughout the country so that we're all represented at those conferences when we come back those leads are shared to be more affordable to do it that way. Absolutely. And then another example of trade shows. I will attend small market meetings once a year. That is one show that I budgeted for because I think that makes sense for shirt in particular weddings trying to figure something out there for we are wedding shows I guess. I haven't done any wedding shows yet OK. Being a CVB it's a little tricky right. Because you're trying to bring in a destination and they tend to want those destinations. All their actions to attend individually but that's for me to attend or to wrap my head around how we're gonna attend that market. But I do advertising through some wedding publications. Absolutely. And we share those leads with our partners that are participating in a wedding program that I'm doing right now with that market.

: So you're the only paid staff member correct. So you wear a lot of hats too. And talk about a typical day. Maybe we should start with telling me the listening audience what is a destination marketing organization. What what do you do.

: Sure. Well just five destinations Grandview is mission is to showcase the best of greater Grandview Heights to visitors. In a nutshell. OK so we do that in a variety of ways that I discussed previously on a day to day basis. I do have help with our social media through Cheryl Harrison at speech bubble. She does yes she does a phenomenal job with our social media. So I'm very thankful for that. Although I am a person of one she does do a lot of the work as far as social media efforts go. And that's been really great. But on a day to day basis I'm trying to focus on things on those markets individually so I try to break my day up on Kitcher day we've got to work on promotions for the wedding season because if it's that time of the year or if it's planning season for tour bus operators we'll look at that market and then also with meeting in event planners. So there really is a cadence once I got into this for about a year of when the shows fall when they're planning. And so I have set my marketing calendar according to that.

: Great. But you're also having to do research on trends. What's going on with other communities CVB around the SHC bebes. But destination marketing organizations around the region and what they're doing so.

: Absolutely. And again one of the groups that I'm a partner with is the Ohio Travel Association. They do some great workshops and those types of things I attend an annual conference. They are to stay on top of trends. Some of the best trendy ideas though at this conference has come from networking with my peers and we are the thing about the tourism world and I'm sure you can attest to this. It's a really close knit community. There were not super competitive we know that we're all in this together and if we work together we'll all benefit from that outcome of working.

: I do remember that and loving that we openly shared successes and challenges and we all learned from that and embraced partnership says as you've alluded to a couple of times that oh my gosh it helps so much if you can plan a bus trip with a partner organization because maybe you have a half days worth of something to do for fifty five passengers on a bus. But then you can partner with somebody else but also just as I said sharing successes and challenges and learning from those and making it organization better.

: I mean every other month with Kaddo which is the capital area tourism association and that is made up of executive directors and immediate Columbus area. So Dublin Hilliard Yohanna were all there and we discuss some of those trends and topics and judicial things that we might be interested in.

: Great. So are there any new things on the horizon that you can even share with us of things that are coming to the area or are things to look forward to or new packages.

: Well I think in Grandview specifically I think an area to watch would be good deal. I think we've seen some interesting businesses coming in there. There's a distillery going in along there.

: When is that set to open. Do you know ish. Okay. That's good. You're right. Goodale has been transformed already so much and there's so much more of it to come right.

: And I have met with that distillery. I just don't know their start date but I can tell from their Instagram they're moving pretty rapidly. Yeah we're excited about that. But I do think that Goodell is going to just continue to expand Granby crossing which will be a Dublin Road and Grand Avenue. I think it's really exciting to watch as well. There is a proposed hotel going in there too. And then across from the grand Biard crossing the grand via grand event center there's about 10 acres of land being developed there too. So there's a lot of development coming into the area.

: So we're excited about that is a hotel and Green Bay Crossing this proposed set to be on the Grandview side of that property I know it's kind of split between Columbus and Grandview.

: The initial article I read said yes it would fall on the grant park.

: Great for you. Yes but actually it's really exciting for the whole area. But certainly last year Grandview yeah because funding from Destination grab you. People should know is primarily generated by tax revenue. That's correct. OK so another hotel would certainly be an added budget.

: Absolutely. And then is revenues that come in from the hotel about tax don't entirely go to me. They're also shared with organizations like the parks and rec department Harang or parks stability and growth right.

: But that's that's exciting. Very exciting.

: You know growing up in this area I have said many many times that where you sit with the grand event center and the hotels around there in the Graham yard specifically it was a grocery store you know warehousing facility. Who would have thought that is what it is today with this beautiful development and hotels and an event center and more to come. So it's really exciting to see the changes. Absolutely. You're there in the middle of it every day right.

: Absolutely. It's a great area to be in. Lots of growth going on down there I think you'll hear some announcements and other things coming down there too soon.

: I hope so. It's exciting. It's started out as a 15 year project. I don't know how much that's been set aside. Yes so we're about maybe a seven or eight years into that so I'm sure there's plenty more to come. That's good sign. I'm really good.

: I think we're continuing to see growth in Grandview and some great new merchants coming in and a lot of them are still the local flavor that people look for.

: Absolutely there's a lot to do in Grandview. You have taken this organization to a new level which I know that's what you were tasked with but you're definitely the right person. We're so happy to have you promoting our area.

: I appreciate that and everyone has been so great to work with every merchant I've met with is really open and welcoming to providing you with their input and insight on what they see. And you know part of it is just me educating them of where they fit into the tourism world.

: And I think that's it. I think it's education. You know I think a lot of these people come to grab you because they know it's vibrant they know it's close to all some major areas of downtown or not downtown Columbus. And it's it's clearly a great place to be. But educating them on working together and partnering and where they fit in the puzzle is so important. So I know you're doing a great job of that and we love at the chamber working with you of course to promote our area. And I think it's a great partnership. Absolutely. Thanks for all of your support. Thanks so much. We look forward to seeing Graham you continue to grow with all this new stuff coming in and continuing to promote the area. Great. Thanks so much for your time. Thanks for joining me.

Business Inspires - Jason Design Studio

Jason Design Studio

Hi this is Michelle Wilson. I'm with the tri Village Chamber partnership and I'm here today on the business inspirers podcast with Jason Willis. Jason thanks for joining us. You're welcome. I was going to say you're with Jason design studio which you are. But there's there's so much we want. I want to talk about with you today because I've known you for so many years now you're my life with the chamber and and you've done a few different things during those years so yeah. To say the least. Yes you have. So when I met you you were doing ad sales basically is that right. That's right. OK. And you had what market.

I had downtown German village Grand View in the Short North. Not the greatest markets for community newspaper but right several grand view of course.

And so we worked together in that capacity for a little bit and then you started saying oh I'll design that for you because I would be taking out ads for the chamber for an event or something and I thought you know I don't know how to do any of this stuff. So I don't have a designer. And you started designing things for you is that kind of when your interest in design began or was it always there and you just had to. You had to find a fit to make it work.

Yeah I. So I worked with a great designer named Annie at this week news and I found that the my favorite thing to do you know selling advertising especially newspaper advertising is it is a tough game these days with everything moving more digital but I found that my favorite thing to do is do the layouts and to sketch out advertising that little ads and I kind of because I was in advertising I got a good feel for what people were looking for and how they read an ad and how they looked at marketing. So I would sit down with other designers and try to talk through how I wanted the ad to look and I'm like I just wanted to do this myself. And so you know kind of controlling. My old boss would say absolutely hate it all the time that I spent with with our ad designers but I wanted things to be right and in the end that's was my inspiration.

And they were and Kay side note love Annie Miss Annie is great. Clearly she was a good mentor to you. But you also helped the chamber at the time when I was just the Grandview marble Cliff chamber. Before we became tri village you helped us put together our first full size full color directory for the community and because you had such a great eye and and vision that publication for the first three years won national awards.

Yeah yeah I think it was national advertising in that in that community size won first place nationally which was surprise. I don't say it's surprising but it was a little surprising.

It was a little surprising because it was our first shot out of the gate to do that type of directory and we took a took a leap and did our cover as a night shot which when you're representing community was was kind of different because you know you want the sunshiny flowery rainbow picture of the community representing and we did a winter in Columbus Ohio area night shot and it was awesome.

I think that was because we were subject to the time that we had. I think we kind of started late.

We did go. We did course we did.

We started we started late going through the process of picking photography and luckily I had a friend who is amazing at Photoshop actually I went outside of the dispatch and talked to a buddy who was a photoshop guru and he took out all the power lines and just made it look really good.

If you remember he put changed the sign changed the sign on you can say yeah that's right. Yeah. It's still my favorite cover. I don't know if it was just because it was the first time and it was different and it won an award but it's still my favorite and if you remember the photo was taken by a vital vital vital fight for corporate America another chamber board member all worked out beautifully. So you started when I knew you were at the dispatch and you worked for the community newspapers. Is that where you got your start your career started.

No.

So I was sort of I always thought I was kind of artistic when I was younger but I always say you know I got into sales but I first thing I did I was in the school music at a high state and a lot of people don't realize that I played jazz and classical trumpet. Wow. So I did not know that. Yeah. So I took I wanted to be either an architect or you know one thing or be a musician. Yeah. So I went to a high school music for several years found that they were pushing me towards teaching which I liked but I didn't want to be a band director. So I dropped out of there and I've been going to college off and on ever since finally got my degree in graphic design and I just tidy that up a few years ago. Quite honestly so I have enough credits to be probably have four degrees none of them none of them would make sense. But you know I think that's one thing that I do as I constantly learn. You know I kind of got that from my dad. My dad got his degree when he was 40 years old to 38. So he was an inspiration for me because he was a carpenter and then he's like you know I got to do more with my life and I've found his passion and he went for it and that's that's kind of how I went to.

That's amazing.

So he he of his family yeah and he was he coached my team or took him eight years to get a two year degree. He was coaching me.

He was umpiring basketball and refereeing or refereeing basketball umpiring football and that's something I would say umpiring umpire yes like I don't know sports baseboard right.

But yes so he was a big inspiration my life he read. I don't remember those old encyclopedia britannica as lawyers side. We got those. And he I remember going upstairs and he read every single one cover to cover. Oh my gosh.

Just because. Because he wanted to and he just was constantly learning and you know I hated reading when I was a kid and yeah I find that is something I do every day now. I read every day I'll try to learn something new everyday even if by accident.

Do tutorials you know Google on YouTube is amazing if you're trying to learn procedures in Photoshop or wordpress or whatever. There's a lot of things you can you can learn from there.

So anyway it's I love the story that your dad was such an inspiration. That's great. That's great. So you were at the dispatch. You decide you've found this little niche that you kind of liked and that I have. I have something here and I'm good at this so what did it take for you to make the leap to leave that and start on your own. That's a big leap.

Well two things. One thing is that I lost my three biggest print advertising customers in like two months and not because of something I did it just because they were transitioning into digital advertising and radio and the TV.

More so you know that was a big chunk of change. And I was kind of at that point where I was going to kind of ride this bull till it bucked me in it and bucked me and I had a friend who I worked with in German Village in the German village society. That was a graphic designer design Smith Studios and he was he actually set me up with one of his big clients and I did all his overflew work. And so it allowed me to kind of get right out the gate and he was he was very precise and he kind of taught me how to really check my work. And you know it wasn't that I wouldn't say the sexiest of design work but it got me started. Sure. So.

And did he give you any good solid advice and starting your own business in that field.

Yeah names Jeff Smith design Smith. He was he had been doing it for years and actually he used to teach some design at Columbus State. So he was very patient with me. And you know sometimes I think I need to bring on more people to help me because I get overwhelmed. But I think it would take me just as long to explain what I want to have done and have it done myself do it myself. So he was very patient and he was great at that and I probably he was probably the real starting point for me it helped me get into the business.

Great. That's nice to have somebody and he's local so you can still rely on him if you had a question and that's great. Still DongJun village. So when you do face some of the challenges of being overwhelmed having a lot of work on your plate having a little less time than is ideal how do you how do you persevere what do you what are some of your tools in your toolbox that you could share with perhaps other entrepreneurs who are facing the same challenges.

Well the first thing that comes to mind is don't be afraid to work the weekends but which is something I do quite often find a little time extra. There's always time I think to do things and you get distracted very easily. I'll go four to six hours and I'll actually turn my phone and my email off. That's a little it's tough these days especially with things coming at you and deadlines and people need things really quick. But if you have a project that is really bearing down on you I find that just turn it off and people get mad at me sometimes I'm like where were you. I needed nine as well. You know you should have you know I get to give me 24 hours at least 48 is usually I can turn things around very quickly. But you know certain things need attention and you've got to give us some time.

Do you think that some of your customers are clients kind of think because you're on your own and you still have other things to do and so you have all the time in the world because you're not sitting in a big box office with a big staff do you think that that's that's a challenge that you face from your from the client perspective is that they just they think you're at their beck and call or no as it's always you set that I expect.

Not really as long as you set that expectation. Sometimes I turn things around so quickly that they're happy I tell them you know you set an expectation and you exceed it right. Right. So if I say you've got to give me 48 hours and I turn it around 30 minutes you know they'll get used to that but I I tell them you know if they send me something and I know that I'm busy and I know that I'm working on a big project I'm going to tell them this is going to be tomorrow or was that okay. Communication is the key. I find that when I was in advertising I didn't care if a customer gave me a yes or no. Just give me one of those things right. Right.

I'm not. Is it a hard sale. I was like yeah. I just don't. People

Ghosting me and especially you know your graphic designer. You don't want people that are in the service industry ghosting you. Basically you want communication even if it is to tell them that it's going to be a day or two.

Right. That's all and that's how I feel. So I think that's what you're saying is just if it's going to be a day or two just let me know that and then I'm good you know and I can plan around that. Exactly yeah. And you do that with me a lot. So I will mention that that you do a lot of work for the chamber. And right now I'm keeping you very busy day. Yes yes. And I say I need this today and most the time you're able to do that. So that's really appreciated. And you know I don't ever want to take advantage of that fact which is probably one of the reasons I ask that question is do you feel taken advantage of the times.

But if somebody needs. Sometimes people just need something today. You know I'll I'll take care of it.

And probably most of the time you can do that. Yeah yeah yeah. If it's. Yes yes. And you do. You travel a lot. So sometimes that means you set the expectation at least with me that says Hey Michelle I'm going to be out these 10 days. And and so I know you know try to load you up before you leave her. Jeff when you get back. But. But I pretty much. I know. And tell me about your travel.

That's where you go when it comes to business I have 10 to 15 clients constantly you know need something at some point during the month. But you know me and my girlfriend Kelley we travel quite a bit late lately at least once a month. Whether she's traveling I'm traveling or traveling together we're decidedly starting to slow that down because it is you know when you start your own business especially in the beginning it's been a few years for me now but in the beginning you got to be present. Nice thing about what I do is I can take my laptop with me and if I have emergency work that needs done. But I let my clients know a month or two in advance like I'm going to be out these days. Right. If it's especially if it's a good chunk of business hours. I want to make sure they know that.

And so for your regular clients is this is it ongoing or do do you do a lot of project worker. I mean are they calling you and you're doing work for them every day like this. Are you a part of their staff.

I have. I have several clients that are like that. OK. One being Jazz Arts Group of Columbus Yeah I do all their billboards and advertising and digital ads and all that. And that's pretty Conair playbills. So you know they have whatever their schedule is they have 6 10 20 shows a year whenever they are two different seasons they have their Zeu season they have their winter season. Some pretty dialed into that. I go to their events so I know what's going on with that and I go to their shows and a lesbian with actually them because I used to study jazz right. Yeah. Her goal seems to make sense but I have a couple of clients like that that are constantly Rockford homes is another I do all their marketing advertising. I even write some blogs for them which isn't my favorite thing to do but I do it. Yeah I do love it good.

So what do you think you would do differently today. Now that you're a few years down the road starting your business.

I would have started it 20 years ago. Really. Yes. But it took me you know it took me 20 years to really find my passion and sometimes that happens. Sharam it was been kind of a wild ride. I ran some pizza restaurants and I've I've done all kinds I was you know studied music I studied business I sold advertising and in the end that's probably where I got my launch into creative work for marketing.

I love helping small businesses medium size businesses.

I've had a couple large businesses that I've dealt with but you definitely feel more involved with smaller businesses feel more everything's more at stake you know especially when you're building a website for them. Occasionally I get brand new businesses where I'm doing their logo all other marketing picking their colors and designing their Web site.

He did that with us. You did that with the chamber Yeah. We matched and that was it was. I had no idea where to start. So you know even though you were kind of new into what you were doing the guidance that you gave us to develop our logo and our colors was really helpful because I had no idea where the starting point was. And you came in with a survey or a questionnaire that helped us really think about and identify who we wanted to be and find something that was going to stick and have longevity and make sense not only two years ago when we merged but 20 years down the road.

Yeah. You know everything needs freshened up after a while and trends change and sure you know everything gets stodgy. So that's why I'm always going to be in business because everybody's always going to need something new. Colors are going to change. We use dropshot when I use drop shadow. Is it a flat design. There's all kinds of things that are changing over the years.

You know I try to make things that kind of stand the test of time. But that's that's that's designed. It's constantly changing and it's exciting and you got to keep up with it.

Right. So I said I was just going to ask you was how do you keep up with the trends.

The reading I belong to a lot of blogs and blogs have been a sort of a weird thing over the years. But all they are just news feeds really. People write their stories and they blog it out. And I remember probably 10 years ago I was like I'll never read a blog. I read them every day. Yeah. Because it's information it's really industry specific inside information. There are so many blogs out there you just search new design techniques in 2018 and you'll get all these blogs and all these people were talking about what's trending now. So I read that stuff constantly now. It's kind of amazing.

Which is good for you and your development but certainly good for your clients. So do you have a preference on types of businesses or sizes of businesses. I mean you kind of mentioned that the smaller businesses you're a little more closely tied to. But you know is there something that you.

Is there a niche you prefer with smaller businesses. Give me a little more carte Blash so that medium larger sized businesses anything over 30 50 employees they're going to have a lot more to say about what they want which is which is fine. Sure. But I kind of like the smaller businesses sometimes because they give me a little more creative freedom than they trust me a little more and sometimes you have to sell your designs even especially to these medium and large larger businesses you really have to sell your designs and convince them what is right. Sometimes you know the customer isn't always right about these types of things so you have to educate them.

And that's probably hard to convince a large company who's been doing the same thing for a while and they're kind of tied to what they've been doing.

Yeah they're tied to their brand and you want to you know you don't want to go in and reinvent the wheel and the customer in the end. They want what they want. Sure. I'll try to talk them out of going into a bad habit type thing type designs. But it is what it is. Yeah. Got to get what they want.

I remember when we were coming up with this podcast and Brett and I were working on what do we called this thing. What is it you know we're talking about businesses but we want it to be a little more personal. We want to tie the listener to each of our businesses on a personal level so that you know maybe they they get their printing done with x printer but they also know that you know how that printer got there and why they're doing that and what their passion is. And Brett and I came up with something I can't remember what it was because I talked to you on the phone and I said hey I need you to design this logo. And we talked it through again. And and you said that sounds kind of inspirational and I said oh my gosh that's it. It's business inspires. And so that's how we came up with that. Forget about that. This nice reminder but that's exactly how we came up with that was having that conversation with you on the phone and that it's nice that you can listen to each client especially small businesses that are like me that are they I know what they want to do but they don't know exactly how to get there. And so you're able it seems to me to be able to adapt to who they are and what they're trying to accomplish and and help them get to that end game. So that's really nice. So tell us a little bit about what you do every day.

So I do graphic design web design and marketing photography you know photography was one thing that kind of came in late and it was something it was I took some classes on it and found out that I had a pretty good eye for it. And I recently did a wedding which I said I would never do. But I did it for a friend of mine you dress. It wasn't because it we just it was pretty laid back wedding but I I find I have a pretty good eye for marketing to toggery food photography things like that.

So I had shots which I've done for you guys too. Yes. So we do I do a little bit of that graphic design portion I do logo design advertising. I took probably five or six Photoshop classes in college and I still only know about 75 percent of Photoshop. So there's there's so much more to learn but it's it's it's fun because you have to learn every day and I love doing it using Illustrator doing logo designs like like the tri village logo and trying to make that work for everybody. InDesign is another program I use that's for doing layout magazine layouts and things like that advertising layouts. And most recently probably the last three years I picked up web design and that I took some classes on coding which is not something that I am I am not a coder and I will never be a coder but I know how code works and I can write code if I have to. I use WordPress as a basis for my web design but it's nice being. Most large firms that do web design they'll have a designer and then they'll have a coder who will make it happen. So the designer will send mockups to the client and then if they like it then they sign off on it and then the coder will actually create the Web site based on the mockups. Well I kind of cut that middleman out. I'm a designer who can design websites with a builder and modern technology has gotten to which WordPress certain WordPress Themes and builders are so easy to use now that you don't really need to do a full custom and pay the 100 to 300 miles. You know some of those companies do need these million dollar platforms but you know small medium businesses can get it done much less expense than they used to be and how about turnaround time does that allow you to turn things around more quickly for clients.

It does. But again I'm a one man show so sometimes I will engage some other Web designers to help out in that case.

But yes in the end yes it really does take less time and it sounds like it's more affordable much more affordable. You know I don't really have to I have to keep the lights on in my home office. But you know large firms they're going to you know you're going to pay 150 dollars an hour where you are going to pay half of that with me just because that's just I just don't have the overhead that these large firms have.

Right. Good. And so where can people find you.

My web is w w w Jason design studio dot com for me on my Web site.

Fantastic. Thank you so much for joining us today. I would highly encourage you to check Jason out. Clearly we use him a lot at the chamber and and for our events and lots of logo work and we really appreciate all of your help. But I would encourage everybody to to check you out get to know you because you do great work.

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