Haven Collective

Stephanie Evans  
Today I'm talking with Melissa Blackburn, co-creator of Haven Collective, a co-working space in Upper Arlington. Welcome, Melissa, and thank you for joining us. 





Melissa Blackburn  
Thank you so much for having me. Very excited. 

Stephanie Evans  
I have to say, it's been so fun for me to follow you and Danielle, as you've built your business. An amazing work environment over there next door, as a matter of fact. But I remember meeting you the first time and walking through your building wearing a hard hat. 

Melissa Blackburn  
And we still have those pictures. We love them.

Stephanie Evans  
Yeah, wearing a hard hat and listening to your vision. And I was just so excited for you. And it's been such a gift to me to be able to kind of watch you guys grow with it. So I appreciate that you reached out to us so early in your business so we could be kind of part of that. I feel like a proud aunt! 

Melissa Blackburn  
Well, you guys have been so supportive. And I just remember being really impressed with how involved the chamber was and how committed you are to our success. So you know, we owe a large Thank you, to you for that support too.

Stephanie Evans  
It's been fun. It's been really fun for us. So I'm thinking though, how long ago was that? 

Melissa Blackburn  
Oh, my goodness. So we came up with the idea in April of 2017, and then started taking on co workers in October of 2017. Just in our upstairs. 

Stephanie Evans  
That happened pretty quickly.

Melissa Blackburn  
Yeah, I don't I don't tend to move slowly. And then we opened our full building and welcomed everyone we could starting in February of 2018. 

Stephanie Evans  
Yeah, it did happen quickly. So it wasn't that long after I started here, right. I met you. 

Melissa Blackburn  
You were pretty new when we started.

Stephanie Evans  
So we'll circle back to some of that. But I want to start our talk today with same question that we ask everyone, which is, what did you want to be when you grew up when you were a kid? And then how does that play into what you're doing today?

Melissa Blackburn  
What a great question. When I grew up, I actually wanted to be an actress. I begged my parents to send me to acting classes and was lucky enough to get a lot of roles and theater through high school. I even went to theater school one day a week for high school. 

Melissa Blackburn  
And come time for college, my parents had very different ideas about what I should do. And we're not really supportive of me going to theater school for college. So I went the more traditional route. So it does play into what I do today. Because though I haven't thought about it till you just ask this question. Having that comfort and being able to talk to people and get on stage and not be afraid to be silly, or make a fool of myself, I think you need that when you're starting your own business, because it can be very nerve wracking to put yourself out there.

Stephanie Evans  
I would think so. And the confidence that you built by being on on stage in front of people.

Melissa Blackburn  
I think I just was from a young age, not afraid to fail. So I think the theater really helped me to build that confidence. 

Stephanie Evans  
Good for you and for your parents. We actually had a conversation in another podcast about failure. And, and that sometimes, you know, as parent we don't want our kids to fail, nobody wants to fail, but how to pick up those bootstraps and keep going when you do and being kind of fearless of failure.

Melissa Blackburn  
Resilience is very important. My husband and I talk about that a lot as we're raising two young children. We have a two year old and a four year old and we try to really focus on allowing them to fail and not fixing everything for them and helping them build that confidence in that resilience.  

Stephanie Evans  
Because, you know, no matter what you do, somewhere along the way, you're going to have a failure might be in varying degrees. It might be that you've earned the birthday cake, but you gotta figure what you're going to do, and be willing to make a birthday cake. Or run down to the store.

Stephanie Evans  
So tell us then about your business, Haven Collective.

Melissa Blackburn  
So Haven Collective is a co-working space at its core, we have everything from general memberships, where people can come in and work in our open spaces, all the way up to dedicated desks and offices. We've designed it so that entrepreneurs can come in at any stage of their journey and really have a plan that fits their budget and fits their needs. 

Melissa Blackburn  
Of course, everyone's there working and trying to get their best work done throughout the day. But we also like to provide other amenities that help them have some balance as well. So we do things like once a week, we have an hour of yoga. We also have a meditation once a week, 10 minutes. I think people think will meditation, but it's just, it's really quick. And it's nice to ground yourself for 10 minutes a week. And then, of course, the fun stuff like wine Wednesdays, you know, three o'clock we put out the wine and invite everyone to come and mingle. 

Melissa Blackburn  
We are also constantly doing events for our members. We're committed to helping them grow personally and professionally and get out of their shell with some networking, but fun networking so that they can learn how to pitch what they do, and meet other entrepreneurs.

Melissa Blackburn  
There's a lot going on at Haven. But really, we try and stress the collaboration in the community aspect and making sure everyone understands they have other entrepreneurs around them that are on the same journey that can help them. Not just because they can understand what they're going through, but could possibly help their business grow through collaboration.

Stephanie Evans  
Right. I remember very early on that was one of the things when I still had the hard hat on talked about in terms of the kinds of businesses that you would like to attract would be some that that could potentially help each other. So yeah, we've got this kind of business, but you need a CPA to help you get your taxes Well, that's someone just down the hall or employee who can write up your LLC is just down at the other end of the hall and, and kind of create a team within the walls of your building.

Melissa Blackburn  
Well said, That's exactly right. It's all about relationships. And so I think a lot of entrepreneurs come in having worked from home and being isolated, and just trying to figure it out on their own. And then they quickly learn not, you know, these co workers who they build trust with can actually be people that help them move forward and just give them more confidence in their business. So it's been a really beautiful thing to watch.

Stephanie Evans  
I love the the language that you guys use to describe Haven on your website. One of the things that you have is that your "An ecosystem for entrepreneurs, freelancers, and side hustlers." And hustlers a word that I see a lot in there. And so, so tell me about that sort of the, the brand that you guys are achieving with some of the language that you're using.

Melissa Blackburn  
Ours is interesting, because Danielle and I are so different. And rather than fight that, we decided to use it as part of our brand. You know, we joke that were the yin and the yang, but really where the hustle and the flow. We try and capitalize on our differences. You know, we say, the hustle and the flow, because our approaches are just very different. And we want to make sure that people can walk in and feel supported and have that warm family feel. But we also have a very strong business background, as both of us have MBAs where it's not just warm and fuzzy. 

Melissa Blackburn  
We do want you to understand the nuts and bolts of your marketing, your finances, your accounting, you need to know those things, but you also need to feel comfortable. So using that hustle and flow to kind of show people that yes, you can be comfortable, but you need to take your business seriously. We really just took that and ran with it. Even our conference rooms are named "Hustle" and "Flow." And if you met Danielle and I together, you would very quickly see how different we are.

Stephanie Evans  
It's a little extrovert introvert somewhere on on the scale. That balance.

Melissa Blackburn  
Yeah,

Stephanie Evans  
It serves the needs for lots of people then when they come in and see the different personalities. That you do have and a place for them.

Melissa Blackburn  
Yeah, I think of course, the factor that we have in common is that we're both very supportive. I think we're just supportive in different ways. And so it has worked really well because it takes every kind of person to build a collective and knowing that somebody might like Danielle's approach, or my approach, it really benefits us because we have both to offer.

Stephanie Evans  
So do you guys serve as business consultants, yourselves? Since you both have business backgrounds and MBAs? Do you consult with the members 

Melissa Blackburn  
We do. We hadn't set out to do that when we started.

Stephanie Evans  
 I remember that being part of it necessarily, and it seems like you're qualified to.

Melissa Blackburn  
Well, thank you. We feel we are. We spent so much time working with members on very tactical things like marketing plans, and and helping with things like how do you structure a p&l? You know, we got to the point where we said, well, of course, we want to make this a member benefit. But beyond a few hours, here and there, what can we turn this into? 

Melissa Blackburn  
So we both do take on what we call like coaching clients here and there for people who need more in depth help. So Danielle focuses mainly on marketing and helping people understand who is their customer, what is the brand story that they want to tell. And then what does their content calendar look like with those factors. 

Melissa Blackburn  
Whereas I work more with entrepreneurs on Okay, now you know who your target audience is and who you're trying to go for. Let's talk about your pricing and your sales tactics, your sales funnel and CRM and let's let's really talk about how to get the revenue coming through the door.

Stephanie Evans  
Right. Okay. Yes. You both lend different specialties. 

Melissa Blackburn  
Yes.

Stephanie Evans  
Well, yeah, that's kind of awesome, then that's just sort of stemmed out of the business. Not necessarily part that you planned for it but evolving.

Melissa Blackburn  
Yeah, it was definitely a complete organic thing. And it's a lot of fun.

Stephanie Evans  
Yeah, good. Good. Let's switch gears a little bit and talk about advice. What would you say the best advice that you got from someone when you said, I'm going to start a business,

Melissa Blackburn  
it might be sad to say, I think a lot of people just were pretty cautious. 

Stephanie Evans  
Did they think you were crazy?

Melissa Blackburn  
It was such a change from what I had been doing. I'd worked in corporate America my entire career. Anyone who really knew me at my core, could have told you that I was going to own my own business at some point, I just have a very entrepreneurial spirit. 

Melissa Blackburn  
The best advice I got was, someone told me that I should understand that everyone's going through the same thing as I am. So in the days when I felt really alone, or really anxious, or really nervous about this, to really understand that everyone else feels that too, and I'm human, and to give myself some leeway to sit in that. Take a minute, figure it out. You're not alone. You know, find your people find your people you can talk to and find them fast, because it's a roller coaster. So and I really took that advice to heart.

Stephanie Evans  
And it sounds like with the members that you have at Haven, you've kind of created a space for them to do that, too, when they're struggling, or when they need advice. Or need to know somebody with a different specialty. You've created an environment so that they can find that.

Melissa Blackburn  
Absolutely, Danielle, and I have our own team that we look to that we consider our go to. But then we of course, try to be that for the members in our organization, and then encourage them to be that for each other. 

Stephanie Evans  
So what do you feel like has been your biggest challenge 

Melissa Blackburn  
The change from corporate has been interesting because going from a structure and a routine where I was accountable to a CEO to now being a co CEO. I am a very self-directed and driven person. But it's a whole other level of accountability when I mean, who's paying attention if you don't do it?  Nobody. 

Melissa Blackburn  
I always led a large team and I always felt like I was somewhat running my own like company in my own mind. But having a board that I reported. And a CEO that I reported to put a different level of pressure. And I don't say that word in a negative sense. Like, it just challenged me to get better all the time. Because I literally had a board I had to get in front of and impress every month, and now it's like, how do I continue to drive myself to do better and to grow professionally without someone else laying those challenges out for me. 

Stephanie Evans  
So it has to come from within a little bit. 

Melissa Blackburn  
Exactly. And just, you know, stepping back from the day to day and really seeing my weaknesses or blind spots on little areas where I'd want to just grow and get better.

Stephanie Evans  
How do you do with time management?

Melissa Blackburn  
Oh, time management. Yes, I'm big believer in time blocking. You know, Danielle and I work very closely on our calendars, making sure that we each have time for what we need to accomplish personally and professionally. So I'm lucky that my partner is understanding of my responsibilities as a mother as a wife, my own personal goals.

Stephanie Evans  
 You've got a lot going on.

Melissa Blackburn  
Yeah, so time blocking is crucial. I know, my best hours are 8am to 1pm, that's when my brain works the best. So I really put blocks in place in those hours to do the harder tasks in my day, you know, making sure that I'm doing my marketing and sales follow ups and all my financial work in those hours, and blocking that off and giving myself permission to step away from running the space during those times to doing the deeper work. Working on the business instead of in it. 

Stephanie Evans  
Right, so not at the front desk.

Melissa Blackburn  
Right, right. We both love being there. We love seeing when people walk in and greeting them and understanding how their days going. But sometimes you have to tuck yourself away and get some other stuff done.

Stephanie Evans  
I find that to you. Like, sometimes I have to close out my email so that I'm not seeing a new email pop up every time I'm trying to get something else done. You can we really have to kind of compartmentalize and be able to focus.

Melissa Blackburn  
And I find that the time blocking helps too, because all those little tasks add up. And if you give yourself permission to say, well, that's a financial matter. And I deal with those Mondays from you know, 11am to 1pm, you just put it for that time.

Stephanie Evans  
You're structuring it that way. So you have your, your time blocks are specific topics. Finances on this day, at this time, and, you know, marketing at this day on this time.

Melissa Blackburn  
Yeah, I just find that like, if you're tackling them all at once, it helps you to see like, bigger picture. What our processes and procedures that you can be putting in place to be more efficient. And that just goes back to my operations background, I think I'm always trying to look for efficiencies in process. So that's just worked well for me. 

Stephanie Evans  
That's great advice. I have to try that.

Stephanie Evans  
So when you do have a challenge come up. What helps you persevere? What keeps you going? 

Melissa Blackburn  
So I'm a person of extreme faith. I pray lot. I am usually quick to make a decision. And if I can't be decisive in the moment, I give myself the space to sit back and think and pray on it and figure it out. And so far, so good. That that works for me. 

Melissa Blackburn  
You know, I think that most of my decisions or challenges can be solved like very quickly. But I find that if I don't really know what to do in the moment, giving myself just a little bit of space to say, you know what, I'm not going to decide on this until tomorrow, even so far as like, tomorrow night, not even to like, worry about it. 

Melissa Blackburn  
And oftentimes, subconsciously, the answer will come to me. I'll be driving or at the gym or something. And it's like, oh, there's the answer right in front of me. But rather, you know, I think my younger self would have tried to like out think it and just solve it right away, and it would eat at me. Whereas now it's like, well, if the answer isn't clear up front, I probably just need to like, step back for a minute. And typically, it just clears itself up.

Stephanie Evans  
Yeah, I think my nature is that I'm a deliberater or so I naturally take that time to think about things. But then once I've reached that point, where it's like, okay, I thought about this, and then, and then it comes to me, it's like, Okay, and then I make my decision really quickly. Because I feel like I've taken so much time to process. 

Melissa Blackburn  
I used to do like, the whole pro and con list thing. And, like, be so practical about it. But I just find like, if I can just breathe and just ask for clarity, just tends to work for me.

Stephanie Evans  
So if you had to do things over again, is there anything you do differently?

Melissa Blackburn  
I would have bought a bigger space.

Melissa Blackburn  
I knew it was going to be awesome. But it is just so far exceeded where we ever thought it could be. And I just wish I could take in more people. I wish I could serve a larger audience. And I just am so grateful that we're at a point where we're talking about how we make an even bigger impact. Because now this little thing that we thought would be cool has taken off, and we know we can do more. 

Stephanie Evans  
So I was just there last week. And hopped in, and it was it was hustling. there were a lot of people around. I didn't go over to the library, the quiet side. But upstairs are all your offices, are they all leased up?

Melissa Blackburn  
Yep, every office is full. We have one dedicated desk coming up, that'll be available. We're still of course accepting members. So we have room I don't want people to be turned away. Like we definitely have room in the shared space and and room in our community to welcome different thought leaders and, you know, different people from different backgrounds. So we're just excited to see how we can diversify our community. 

Stephanie Evans  
So when you like you just said, a desk is going to be opening up or let's say an office opens up. I know that your business is still young, but when those desks or those spaces open up, what's that person's next move? Are they going to a storefront? Are they going to a bigger office? I mean, are you sort of an incubator in a way? 

Melissa Blackburn  
I think kind of similar to our story. A lot of people come to us when they're just getting started. And thinking, like, I have a really cool idea. And then things go way better than they thought. And typically, they're moving into an office, which is why our offices like filled up so fast, or just just stories are totally different. 

Melissa Blackburn  
We had one woman who was working from home, feeling very isolated, decided to get a desk so that she could have a community around her. And I think when she had more structure in her day, was able to think like, what's going to make me happy in life and decided she wanted to be in Colorado, she wanted to be around the mountains. And so she was able to take her job and moved Colorado. And we still keep in touch with her, and she's still part of our community via our private Facebook. But, you know, that's just one story. 

Melissa Blackburn  
I think being part of the community, people are so encouraged, whether that means Yeah, I'm going to take a trip across the country, or I'm going to move up to an office or, you know, I'm ready to take this gig even bigger and get a storefront.

Stephanie Evans  
So it's a confidence builder, for whatever that next step is. Ok. So my last question is about success. And how would you define success? And, and how do you know when you're there?

Melissa Blackburn  
Hmm. I've been thinking about that one a lot lately. Because I think you really do have to decide what success looks like to you. You know, if you'd asked me this question 10 years ago, I probably would have associated it with having a big paycheck, that sort of thing. 

Melissa Blackburn  
But it just looks so different now.

Melissa Blackburn  
To me, being able to call the shots in my own life is success in a nutshell. Not being beholden to anyone else, being able to take time off and be present with my children, take time and be with my husband, live life, basically, on my terms.

Melissa Blackburn  
It's just so freeing. It just feels really good. And I don't think that I would trade that for the big fat paycheck. 

Melissa Blackburn  
As life is a little easier in some levels and that way, but there's a lot more pressure that comes with that too. And I think so many people that I talked to, who make the leap from corporate have that "aha moment" as well. Like, wait a minute, I was so scared about losing the money, you know, so scared. Well, what would life would look like, and losing that financial freedom. 

Melissa Blackburn  
But you find you need a lot less, you spend a lot less and different things become important to you. And I just sleep a lot better at night now. And so I think just continuing to remind myself on the hard days that like, I just don't answer to any anyone. And if I needed to leave right now and go pick up my kids from school, I can do that. And it's just to me, that's huge. 

Stephanie Evans  
Good for you. Congratulations. Great way to wrap up.  How do we find you on your social media or website?

Melissa Blackburn  
You can find us on our website at www.HavenColumbus. com. We do communicate with our audience very frequently through Facebook @havencollective, and through Instagram,@havencollective as well. So always excited to see a new follower and get you engaged in the conversation. So we'd love to see more people from the TriVillage Chamber, people from Upper Arlington, following along and getting to the conversation with us.

Stephanie Evans  
Great. Thank you so much. 

Melissa Blackburn  
Thank you.

Central City Church

Stephanie Evans Today we're talking with Allyssa and Joe Graves, of Central City Church in Grandview Heights. Welcome to you guys and thanks for joining us today. Allysa Graves Yeah, thanks for having us. Stephanie Evans So starting a church is a little different than starting a business. But I would imagine that there are many aspects of it that you have to treat as a business in order to be successful. So those are the things I'd like to talk to you about today. Running a church as a business and how you guys got started with Central City Church. Stephanie Evans So to kick us off, we always ask the same question of everyone. And that is, what did you want to be when you're a child? And how does that tie into where you are today? Allysa Graves Yes. So when I was growing up, I, I think I just wanted to save the world. So I remember wanting to be a marine biologist, because I wanted to say all the animals and wanting to be a missionary because I want to save all the kids around the world. And I want to be a teacher because I want to save all the high schoolers that we're getting trouble. And so I just wanted to save the world. And now I am none of those. But I am a pastor. So you know, it works because I get to help people where they're at, and bring light into a neighborhood or into people's life. Joe Graves I would say that when I was, especially in high school, I was really kind of trying to wrestle, did I do I want to go into ministry? And specifically do I want to be a missionary. So I mean, we have that in common. There's something like romantic I think, in our Christian world at the time about being a missionary, and the adventure and sacrifice that went with that. So I think there's probably a lot of people who grew up in similar environments that felt that way. Then also kind of want to do something creative. I was really into art really enjoyed creativity. So I really wrestled a lot with, you know, should I go into art? Or should I go into ministry of some sort? And now I think as a pastor of a church, and especially a new church start, we got to do a lot both so really have fun doing the ministry, being a pastor, but then being able to do some of the creative stuff from marketing to other types of creative endeavors. Stephanie Evans So it does kind of come full circle and bring your passions all together. Allysa Graves Which is the, the good thing about being able to start your own, whatever, because we get to kind of shape and form how and what that looks like. Joe Graves We get to develop the culture and, and also our roles in working together as co pastors, we get to develop those roles, but then also just like, the roles of what we do as a church and and the work we get to accomplish and what it looks like. Stephanie Evans So one of the things on your website says that you're doing church differently. So can you tell us about that? What does that mean? Joe Graves This actually goes back to like, starting a business. We've really tried to figure out as a church who we are, we've been a community now for a year. And so part of that it's like the classic branding, marketing conversation that any businesses, especially a new business, you have clarity of vision, you want to make sure you can tell people exactly who you are. Joe Graves So when we started, we had a particular vision, and now we've been doing it for a year, we've been asking the question, why did the people who come, what do they love about it? And I think there's something that makes us unique, and I think some of those things are personality. We embrace mystery and questions. So when it comes to like, a faith perspective, you know, like, our sermons typically aren't the answer to a question there more often ending with a question. And so that's one of things, it makes us different. And actually, a lot of people come to our church, because they're like, we feel like, there's room for conversation, we feel like you're not telling us, we have to believe a certain thing, or we get kicked out. So we try to create that space for mystery. Joe Graves And, and for creativity. That's probably another thing that makes us different. But holding things, intention would be probably the thing that makes us the most different and being welcoming to people, regardless of where they're at in life, whether they have faith at all, those are probably some things that make us different. And another thing is, we tried to be intentional about living the church out in mission. So one of the things we say is we don't try to outsource our mission. So we are church in that's engaged in doing the hard work of ministry, especially with the vulnerable and creating space for people to volunteer and give back to that. And I think in some ways that makes us different as well. Allysa Graves We are doing church different than a lot of people have experienced previously. We want to be about relationships with each other, and not not being people that have it all together, but recognizing who we are, and being vulnerable in that, and being a place where no matter who you are, what you've done, where you're going, like you can be here, and we will be there on that journey with you. Joe Graves Are you contemporary, or traditional? Are you conservative or progressive? And, and a lot of those labels don't work well for us. Allysa Graves Because we're all of that. Stephanie Evans Would you say that is part of your business model? That was the plan to kind of come in and be different? intentionally? Allysa Graves Yes, yeah, we've had a lot of experience. And I think one of the reasons why we wanted to start something new is because we weren't seeing church done the way that we would like to be a part of a church. And so yeah, it was our business model to be different, to be something that people who have had a negative experience with church could come and be welcome and, and find what they're looking for in that. And so it kind of is, we want to be different. But we want to be what we think the church is supposed to be. And so it's not necessarily that we want to be different, just for the sake of being different. But we want to be different, because we feel like the churches, something is missing in churches. Joe Graves A very sincere, genuine place for like, this is what the church could be. And we really push that. From a business marketing standpoint, you can still approach the conversation come to a similar conclusion, say, look at market research. The vast majority of people who are unchurched were churched at one time, they were a part of a church community, and maybe even associate with the church community, even if they don't attend. Joe Graves So now, now, you're saying like the majority of people who might come to our church used to go to church, which means they stopped going, and as you get to know, the people who stopped going, you're hearing stories. Some people stop going because of in different reasons, you know, neutral reasons or stop going, got bored. But a lot of people were meeting at negative experiences with church, a lot of people have been really hurt by church. So some of the stuff we're trying to do different in the way we approach it is in response to the fact that Yeah, so if people are like, I love church, and I'm all about church and churches, the best thing in the world, we don't attract a lot of those people, you know, and that's one thing it probably makes us different as well. We're really connecting with people who've been have had a negative experience. Stephanie Evans One of the things that struck me early on because I met you guys how long ago? Allysa Graves A year and a half. Stephanie Evans So you came to us pretty early on or came to the TriVillage Chamber pretty on early on when you when you first moved into Grandview. Your mobile unit, you carry a trailer. Allysa Graves Church in a Box. Stephanie Evans So you started out at the Grandview Theater, and now you're over at the CA Backspace, right. So but you you still have your trailer and you bring things with you so that you can kind of go wherever you need to go. Yeah, and I think that's kind of a unique aspect as well. Allysa Graves It is unique, it's hard, because we people ask us where we're located. And we tell them that we have like, five addresses. So at any given moment, we might be in a different location. We have our church at CA Backspace, where we bring the trailer and we set up all of our kids space, and our coffee, and our band and everything. And then we have office space at a couple different churches that we're partnering with. And we have a P.O. box. And so we have all these different addresses. And I think it does make us unique, that we're just ready to be where we need to be. Joe Graves Once again, thinking about, you're trying to connect with people who aren't going to church are ready. And one of the barriers for people is the church building itself, sometimes they a bad experience, the feeling of a church building can be a hindrance. And so being in a neutral place, like a theater or an event center, like you take away that barrier. And anytime you take a way, you know, a barrier from perspective, can you know, person who can be connected to your community, if you're thinking of it, like a business, someone who might be a client or whatever, that's a that's a huge win. So there's like, there's definitely, you know, long term, could we exist in a traditional building? Yeah, like, traditional church building? Absolutely. But to start, it's really, there's a lot of benefits to being a different place, Stephanie Evans I think some of the things that you're describing also do apply to other businesses, when we think about what others can learn from what you're doing in being flexible, being mobile, going to where people are, and just kind of being available. Thinking outside that box, I think, is really smart. Stephanie Evans So what would you say, is the best advice that someone gave you, when you said, you were going to start this business, or this church? Joe Graves For me, it would be the process of networking. And so this is just as nothing unique to the church experience. But I actually, I actually think, you know, our Jesus, which is our model for ministry, He was probably one of the best networkers in the sense that He was, when you look at the stories, Jesus, who's in the community, He's in the meeting people, and He talks about sending His disciples out to do similar stuff, He talks about this person of peace. Joe Graves And so He would send people out to these villages. He said, If you go to a house, and you meet someone, so basically, going network, we'll use modern language. And you run across somebody, and there's a positive experience, then invest in that. And if you run into somebody who doesn't like what you're doing, He says, shake off the dust. And don't worry about it. It's like this sense of like, don't let that stop you from keep going. Joe Graves Because in the process of networking, and trying to meet people who want to be a part of what you're doing, the majority of the people you meet in any business probably don't want anything to do with it, right? And so you can't on the one side, let that negativity drag you down, because that can be really hard discouraging. But then on the other hand, you have to keep going and finding those people who are interested and invest in there. Joe Graves And so the process that we've tried to do meeting new people on a regular basis and following up with them, and trying to just be in relationship without necessarily any strings attached, especially as a church like we're not trying to do any particular sale, but just be in relationship with people. And then if there's room in the community for them, then that's great. That's probably the one of the best process of just meeting new people. Allysa Graves Yeah, mine was along the same lines of just invest in the relationships that take hold, I think is is one of the things that I heard early on that, that he's been going. It's not about a large number of people. But it's investing in those relationships that are important to those people and to us. Stephanie Evans Well, one of the things that we always say at the TriVillage Chamber is, you know, we provide the networking opportunities, but you know, the more you show up, the more you get to know people, and people want to do business with people that they know. So it really kind of pays off in lots of respects. Allysa Graves It's actually been really fun for the last year and a half being a part of the TriVillage Chamber and just getting to like walk around Grandview and in the tri-village area, and just being able to, like, Oh, I know them, I've seen them at a TriVillage Chamber meeting or we've done this event together. And regardless of who's using what business it's just really fun to know more people. And so we go to restaurants that are TriVillage Chamber members, and we know that we shop at stores then and you services from the TriVillage Chamber just because we know the people. Stephanie Evans This is a nice segue too, to kind of bring up the fact that Alyssa, you have been really helpful here to our TriVillage Chamber members in stepping up to kind of organize opportunities for our members to volunteer their time. So we appreciate the work that you're doing, and look forward to having more of that coming our way too. Stephanie Evans So what would you guys say has been your biggest challenge? Allysa Graves I have a lot of answers. Stephanie Evans Well, you guys have a lot. I mean, you're, you're doing a lot you have a young child. Joe Graves He's the biggest "challenge." Allysa Graves The hardest thing we've done in the last two years is raise a child. Stephanie Evans Yeah, so I would imagine time is a struggle to manage your time between places. Allysa Graves Especially as a startup, like having to invest so much time and energy into something that's new, so that it can be successful has been a huge challenge for us. And as we work together, we're both trying to put in all of that energy. And so other things in our life, you know, it is challenging to, to make room for, for all of that. Allysa Graves I think the other thing too, there is a lot of pressure to succeed. And there's not really a lot of room in our culture for failure, at whatever scale. And so when we've most weeks or days, when we feel like we're failing, there's not really room for that for the experimentation. And so we have to keep reminding ourselves that we're still new at this. And we're still trying to figure out what this looks like, in this neighborhood. And with these people. And so yeah, I think the pressure is, is probably one of the biggest challenges. Allysa Graves Because the relationships for me are easy. I love meeting new people, and getting to know people and hearing their story. And doing church is easy for me. Coming to worship and doing seven missions and small groups is easy. But it is a lot of the pressure to succeed without room for failure. Joe Graves And the fear of failure can be really overwhelming. And I think it's as I've talked to other people who do, who started other things like this is just a common feeling. But one of the challenges also that adds to that feeling is it's abstract. I was talking to somebody who just left his job at a university to run his own business, and he's been doing on the side now is doing a full time he's like, you know, when I worked at an institution, they just like, I went in, and they told me what I need to do that day. Now, I'm my own boss, and I'm like, I'm not always sure what I'm supposed to be doing when you're your own boss. Joe Graves And I think that's really true to a start up, unless you're doing a startup that already has like a particular model that's like, this is what you do. And you've, you've bought it from some of the or someone given to you like, this is what the startup business looks like, which churches could be that, but we decided to do church differently. So we're not following a particular model struggled to find a model similar what we're doing. So in that case, when you're doing something that's truly something new, or something that's like a, like a new thing, figuring it out is this nebulous, abstract thing that you're like, all the way down to the very practical thing of how are we spending our time? And where should we be spending our time? Joe Graves That's something we talked about on a regular basis, the simple like, it plays down to that most basic thing of like, Where's our 40, probably 60 hours a week going, and should it be going there, should it be going somewhere else? And there's some models that we can get some wisdom from, but ultimately, we have to kind of figure it out as we wrestle through this new thing that exists. Stephanie Evans I think that what you mentioned about failure, and kind of no room for failure. And learning how to persevere is really, really important. I think, I know, as a parent myself, you know, none of us want to see our kids fail, right? But, and we try to protect them from that. But at the same time, you're almost giving them a gift when they do fail, so that they learn how to pick themselves up and pull themselves back together and move on. Allysa Graves And we learn from our failures. You know, like, when something doesn't work, we can do it differently next time. I think it's hard to see something fail. So, you know, we've put so much energy and time into something, we want to see it succeed. And so when it does fail, there's kind of a little heartbreak. But then also, you know, what's the perception on the outside of that failing? And even though it was experimental, does everyone understand that? And how can we communicate that in a way that like, this is okay, like, we're just learning how to do this better next time. Joe Graves And there's ways to fail well. I think it's the book Lean Startup that talks a lot about failing quicker. So you put off the failure you put off, like the potential value, you do all this pre work. And then, and then if it doesn't work, you've wasted a year of your life. Whereas if you just put out little things, and you start right away, you can learn much quicker from the failure. And so that's hard, you know, we want to, we want to, we want to put more work in at the front end, and then hope it just works a year later, after all the work we put into, instead of experimenting along the way to figure out what works so that a year later, where we've got a working product or working community or whatever. But yeah, failing quicker is something it's a good thing to do. Stephanie Evans Right, because nobody really wants to fail. Never set out that I'm going to fail today. You don't want that to happen. Joe Graves That's something I learned in my art teacher in high school is one of the biggest lessons I've ever learned. He was like, you're not going to get the drawing right the first time. So I want you guys to make three mistakes before you settle in on on your final product. So his like command, usually, when we started a project was like, All right, now go make some mistakes. And we'll get to the doing the finished product tomorrow. And I was like, it was like, really freeing. Stephanie Evans It's kind of along the same lines, as practice makes perfect. You know, when you think about like, a piano lesson. And, you know, just that like, allowing yourself for understanding that I'm going to mess up. But with practice, I get a lot better. So kind of learning from your mistakes, your failures, helps you to stick with it, right? So you're not just gonna walk away. Stephanie Evans My next question is how do you define success? And how will you know when you're there? Allysa Graves I have to remind myself on almost a daily basis, that the success for our particular business is that lives are changed. People are growing in their personal lives in their faith. And so success isn't necessarily numbers or anything like that. Allysa Graves But it's the relationships that are being built and people are finding community, and are finding hope. And so I have to remember that on a regular basis, because sometimes I get wrapped up in so much of did this program work, or did this event happen and what went well. Allysa Graves But when I hear stories of people who meet someone at our church, or in one of our volunteer opportunities, and they are ongoing friends, when they didn't have any friends in their life, they were new to Columbus, they didn't know anybody. But now they have this group of people that they can call when they need something that success for me. So no matter what our numbers are, what we do, knowing that that people are building those relationships is what's success for me. Joe Graves Along those lines, Christianity in America is a big business. Let me just if you don't know that, it's a big business. Lot of money in the whole market of Christianity from churches, the books to music, it's a weird phenomenon. We live in that business. And so it's really easy, a lot of pressure, we talk about pressure and failure and stuff, there's a lot of pressure around numbers. And, and there's a lot of pressure to treat, you know, church like a business, which it is, but at the same time for our own soul, it's really becomes unhealthy to think of it in that regard. So then we have to go back to what is success? We have to answer that question. Joe Graves And we we have to constantly remind ourselves that, you know, my answer would be similar. Alyssa, it's what does it look like to invest in one person who at the end of that relationship or down the road, and that relationship is able to now invest in someone else, and that lives are changed to these one on one relationships, what we would call discipleship, but it's really just this relationships where people lives are changed. They're moving into community with each other, they're supporting one another, and they're increasing in their ability to trust God. And that changes their life because now they're doing things they never would have done, taking a risk they never would have taken because of their their willingness in their ability to to trust God and and love each other. So I guess it was Jesus who said, you know, two great commandments love God and love others. If we see an increasing amount of people, loving God and loving others in our community, then I guess that's, that's what we would say is success. Stephanie Evans I agree, relationships are so important, I think, to any organization, no matter what you're doing those those it's really what it boils down to. So I want to thank you guys and congratulate you year and a half in and keep doing the great work that you're doing. And thank you again for the work that you do for the TriVillage Chamber. We appreciate your leadership and the part that you play here.

Versa Coworking

Business Inspires welcomes Versa Coworking to this episode.  Brought to you by The Village Of Marble Cliff

Business Inspires Podcast welcomes Versa Coworking

: Hi this is Michelle Wilson I'm the executive director of the TriVillage Chamber Partnership. And this morning we are speaking with April Zimmerman Katz who is the president of Zimmerman Companies and the founder of Versa. And we're actually sitting in Versa at 1201 Dublin Road. So thank you for joining me today.

: Thank you for having me.

: This is exciting. We've done a few podcasts here and the space works really beautifully so glad to finally have you and find out what you what your inspirations were to have this space and start this space. But we always try to start this podcast off with. What did you want to be when you were young what did you want to grow up to?

: Oh wow OK I wasn't expecting that question!

: You are from Columbus right?

: I am from Columbus, right. I come from a long line of entrepreneurs and we've been in Columbus as far back as my great great grandparents. As far as I'm aware of. So we've been in business in the city for a long time. I think at one point I thought I wanted to be a marine biologist. But then it occurred to me that I really did not like to be in the ocean. So I like to look at it. But I like to be in it so that wasn't going to work out for me.

: And then I went towards art. So I've always had an artistic streak. I was an art major in college. Studio art major in college. And these days my artistic tendencies are manifesting themselves in space.

: Yes this place is beautiful and Oliver tells us that you did everything here. Every bit of decorating and interior design was all inspired you.

: Well I won't take credit for all of it. I have a great team. But I do have a specific aesthetic that I like and I like found objects. I like to blend different kinds of things so well our architectural team brought in great architectural elements so the spokes that hang from the ceiling and those kinds of details that are really unique in the space. And then we had some people who helped with color schemes. But yes I was part of all of that have very strong opinions about what I want to see and how I want to see it.

: And I go as far as I can with the design professionals and then I like to fill in the rest so I like to shop at flea markets. I like found objects and I spend a lot of time filling in all of the gaps with that. And I think it gives the space personality.

: Oh it does and I love how well this is a very large space but there's so many nooks and crannies that have their own personality. But it all flows so beautifully together. And I love that I cannot do that to save my life. I wish I could my house as well, I will talk about my house, but it's really beautiful here. And I think everybody can find a space that's very comfortable for them.

: Thank you. That's not our goal.

: Well you did a great job. And. So having the artistic background and major certainly plays into what you're doing today. So even at a young age you kind of knew what you liked and wanted to do and you turned that into a career.

: Yes. I needed to be creating something. And I love color and texture and design. And I think that's it adds richness to the fabric of our lives.

: Absolutely. Good for you. Before Versa you kind of worked hand in hand with your husband Kyle. Is that true?

: Well yes and no. We worked together on a project before we started Versa. So I have been running a family business the third generation apart in multifamily.

: And that Zimmerman Companies?

: Yes. So we have had properties throughout Columbus for four decades. More than that now I actually think the's 1970's. So we're getting closer to five decades. And I came to work inside the apartment business in 1999. I was newly single and had three kids and I needed a job. And so I went to work renting apartments and I loved every minute of it.

: What did you love about that?

: What I loved was getting to meet new people all the time. I really enjoy that. I get a lot of energy from other people. These were people who were making big decisions about how they were going to spend their money on the most expensive part of their budget. It doesn't matter what level of apartment that is that holds true whether it's a 500 dollar apartment or fifteen hundred dollar apartment. There's that expectation that people have of being treated well and having a friendly face. And I loved it. So I worked my way up through the ranks of the apartment business. And now I am in part I'm a partnership with my father and he also owns Olympic Indoor Tennis. So that falls now under that umbrella of the companies that we own and manage.

: That's part of Columbus fiber right?

: Yes. So originally my great grandfather had a Olympic swim the Olympic Swim Club. And my family owned that through various generations until 2014 as a pool. And then I purchased the property in 2014 and built The Deco which is a mixed use project. Kyle helped me build that. He is a developer. He's particularly good at that. And so he helped my father and I build The Deco over on the pool property. The tennis property is still there, next door and getting ready to open for forty-third season in September 2018. So yes that was a very exciting opportunity for Kyle and I to work together.

: So I did a lot of the design work. Once again I think at times the architects were probably tired of seeing me because I had a lot of opinions about how I wanted it to look. And we had a great time working on that project together. And so we sort of rolled into this project from that one.

: There was an article earlier this year that says that Kyle was quoted saying "I find and build it, she fills it and runs it." That kind of simplifies a lot of work I'm sure.

: It does.

: It's a pretty neat way to sum up what you both do and how you compliment each other.

: Yeah we figured out that we have different superpowers and yeah it's better to not step on one another's toes in those situations. We've found it to work so far. We're having a lot of fun.

: And clearly having fun is key when you're talking working with your spouse. We interviewed Steve Weaver a few months back who owns The Candle Labs, and he and his wife started The Candle Labs and they've really grown the business and he says if it were up to him he'd have a thousand stores all over the place and if it were up to her she'd have one that's run just perfectly. And I love that and I love that they figured it out and they have a handful of stores and they're very deliberate about what they do and what they each bring to the table. So I think it has to be finding a balance of what your superpowers are and and having fun because that could be disastrous otherwise.

: When you're in business together your day never ends. So you are at work all day long. And then you're home. And he and I do not see each other over the course of the day. He has Katz Development and he's over at The Buggy Works and I am here in this building. And so we don't really lay eyes on each other until the end of the day. Like most couples. And then we have lots of things to talk about.

: So, I did have someone ask us at one point "How do your children feel? What is the talk around the dinner table sound like at your house?".

: Right. That is interesting.

: We're always talking about business or new opportunities or whatever. Sometimes the girls put a stop to that. "No business tonight!".

: But I think it can be cool that when there's exciting things happening or successes you really deeply understand what those successes mean and what was behind them so you can share that experience each other.

: So let's talk about Versa. So this is a very large space. I think it's larger than what's around.

Yes.

: Is that true?

: Yes.

: OK.

: At the moment.

: At the moment right. Because this as I as I was saying this industry has just really taken off in the past five years in its projections on growth are just crazy. But this is a very large space. And what attracted you to the larger space and was it a concern? Was it just the challenge of it or all of the above?

: So I had this wild idea. I'd heard a little bit about coworking. I was interested in what it was because I was already in the business of essentially renting space. And I was just hearing just the beginnings of this. I convinced my husband to go to a conference with me and it was very interesting. It was the spaces that people were talking about at that conference were anywhere from three to maybe eight thousand square feet. Some people were just on the verge of the ten to fifteen thousand square feet when we were there. Moving very very quickly. So Kyle is well versed in figuring out economies of scale. And when you put all of that infrastructure into space, 5000 square feet, it's really hard to make that work. So pretty quickly we abandoned the idea of five thousand square feet. We were looking at 15000 square feet. And then we stumbled upon this building.

: We didn't stumble. We were brought to this building, very intentionally, by our wonderful brokers and we just thought that it was just an amazing building.

: I mean it has water views. There was so much natural light in the building. And so we thought well we were just going to make the ground floor and the first floor coworking to begin with. And that would have been about 18000 square feet on the first floor and another 12 down here on the ground level. But as we were moving ahead over the course of building it out, spaces were going from 15000 to 20000. It was a process of many many many months to lay all of this out and get the business up and running. And also a new user was coming in to the arena and that was an enterprise user. So whole companies of size that wanted to be able to come in and get right to work and not have to worry about working with a broker, working with a contractor, working with an architect building out their space.

: Entrepreneurs, companies who are in existence with multiple employees.

: And so at that point I decided to build out the second floor and make it part of the space. And I know that Kyle thought I was losing my mind because it brought us to 37000 square feet in the building for Versa. And it was far exceeded any of the competition. With that it's definitely slower to get members. When you're talking about that many square feet. We did manage to get in a whole company on the second floor. Singularity University is here. They moved in August 2018 and we're super excited to have them..

: They have all of the second floor?

: Yes.

: Because when we toured it a few months ago it wasn't quite completed. It was almost there and it was really just waiting for that enterprise.

: So they came in and made the decision relatively quickly which is really the essence of what coworking allows companies to do. It allows them to move fast and to get down to business quickly.

: So how do you think that's affected real estate and people signing five, 10 year leases? And I don't mean that just here, I mean the flex space, coworking space availability?

: Well you know it's scary when you're a growing company to sign a long term lease. When you've been in business for a long time and you've got lots of credit and financials to back up those positions and your growth is steady and you know where you're headed, then that makes sense. And we do see a lot of people who come in. Not as many now. But when we first opened, people really curious about what we were doing here, but just didn't understand what we were doing here. the sort of "Why would I do this when I can do that?".

: So there's been a huge learning curve in Columbus when we started. There was a learning curve for the brokers. There was a learning curve for landlords. There is a learning curve for architects in designing the spaces. And then of course the learning curve for the end user. So we had a lot to battle.

: One of the things though is that there have been some accounting changes where long term leases now have to be accounted for on the balance sheet. That can really be devastating for a small company. So if a small enterprise were to sign a five year lease, they have to put the entire five year lease on their balance sheet as a liability like a mortgage would be.

: And if they have a five year option on it they have to put that on it as well. So all of a sudden you have a tremendous liability against potentially a growing company. Where you may or may not know how fast you're going to grow, or if you're going to grow. And this can make a big difference in your ability to raise money. There are lots of different things. I'm not an accountant but I have researched this a lot because it makes a difference and we found that it makes a difference to the people who are here.

: We have a little bit more of a mature membership here. So people who have been in business for a little while. Not long, but long enough to know the direction that they really want to head and maybe have had some kind of space before. And are really ready to hit the ground but also to have a professional face on what they're trying to accomplish.

: People can walk in this building and have conference space and have had the things that they would have in their own long term lease space. So is this month to month?

: It can be. We have different membership levels and some of them can be month to month. So coworking can be month to month. We have what we call community membership which allows an individual or a company who has their own space, but at times needs to access spaces like this or conference room space. Somebody who really likes to perhaps work from home, but they have to meet clients and they can't do it at the dining room table, Panera or Starbucks. It's not appropriate for what they're doing. And so we have a community membership that allows those users to come in and have member pricing on all of our open spaces. And then also join us for all the fun stuff we do.

: So let's talk about some of the fun stuff. I mean I think that's that's a lot of the appeal. Besides not having a long term lease, but having a lot of great amenities at somebody's disposal for a great price every month that somebody can afford.

: So what are some of those amenities that people can look forward to a Versa?

: Well I like to start off with really what we talked about before which was design which makes a difference. Everybody who is starting a business is good at exactly what they're doing great. That doesn't mean that they're good at all of the other things that need to be done. You may be great at tech but terrible at H.R. Every entrepreneur in the world, every growing business, understands this point.

: A lot of people want a great space and great design. They can't afford it or they don't know how to do it. And so we get a lot of feedback just as people walk right through the doors and say "Wow the space is really beautiful and I really love the way it feels." We have heard that it feels much different from any of the other competitors. That has a lot more eclectic feel to it. So there's that that they got which already has a sort of a feel to it that is more professional and more beautiful than they may be able to afford or achieve on their own. We have a cafe of course which is right in the front and that includes drinks and snacks and lots and lots of coffee. We get all of our coffee from Crimson Cup. And it's a great hub for people to sort of come and go throughout their day. and great place to meet, say hello in the morning to each other, other entrepreneurs that are here.

: Because this does give these enterprise companies an opportunity to interact with other businesses and other minds. And connect on different levels.

: We do have happy hour on Thursday nights because why not?

: Because why not!

: Often we have it out on the balcony in the back where we can look over the water. It's also one of the amenities that we have. We have outdoor space here with great views and people really take advantage of it. We've really seen that of course over the summer months where people take their laptop and go sit under an umbrella on a beautiful day and get to spend their day working in that kind of an atmosphere. The other amenities that we have here includes lots of different conference spaces. So we have everything from four person spaces to 12 to 16 to a conversation room which can hold 50 comfortably. And then we have the studios. We have two studios on the lower level that are classroom style, and can hold up to 70 people in those spaces. So we have lots of different spaces available for people for whatever they might need.

: And is that available to nonmembers to rent that space out?

: Yes we have member and non-member availability for all of our spaces. So it's been a great opportunity for people to come in and see this space. And we've had lots of different organizations in here. And it's great to have everyone come and be a part of what we're doing. I think it would be very short sighted to not include the community at large in what we're trying to do here. And having this be an asset for Columbus. Being a member has its privileges. So we do have Member Pricing on things but yes we're very excited to welcome lots of different organizations to the space.

: I ask that because you sit on the edge of Grandview Heights and there's not a lot of meeting space that would hold 50 to 70 people. That space is really very limited and at a premium in the immediate community. But then you're also right on the edge of downtown and so I'm sure that you could really market that beautifully to some overflow meeting space for downtown meeting, convention attendees.

: We like to think that downtown is an amenity. And Grandview would be as well. This lovely community, lots of places where you can go and have a wonderful meal and all that is so close.

: Yes we have lots of people here that loved the idea of being downtown but don't want to be downtown.

: Parking

: Yes we do have free parking here, which is different from our competitor. Most of our competitors of size. We're getting ready to open our second location in the Arena District here in just the next couple of weeks.

: That was my next question, let's transition right into that. Let's talk about that. You're going to be right on Nationwide Boulevard?

: Nationwide and Neil.

: So you're right in the middle in the heart of the Nationwide Arena and the Clippers stadium, you are going to be right there. What a great space! So what will that be? How will that be different than this space, or will it mirror it?

: It will be a more intimate space. It's only 12000 square feet, so it's smaller. The building is just fantastic and the location is great. And there is parking on the site. So that is available to members. And that makes it a different kind of a space for the Arena District.

: Free parking?

: It's not free parking. But I do have that available right there for our members. We have about 46 spots there. Well I think be very very helpful.

: One of the things that we find in coworking rate is that not everybody is here every day. They come and go. Some people are here every day. But a lot of people aren't. People don't necessarily need a parking spot. All of the time. So we are we are really pushing the boundaries of flexibility inside of this business.

: And we're trying to pare all of that with great hospitality. So one of the other amenities I would say is that we have a hospitality director here who is really very dedicated to making sure that everyone's experience in the space is great. Everyone who has a board meeting or a vistage meeting or conference or whatever. All of their needs are taken care of.

: It's a very nice amenity to have somebody on staff.

: It really is. Because it allows you to come in and do what you need to do and not have to worry about it. So again it's one of those opportunities that we provide to business owners and entrepreneurs where it lets them do what they need to do and not worry about the other things. We'll take care of the other things. You get down to business. That's why you're here.

: I love that. I had no idea. I did read that you had hired people from the hospitality industry but I didn't realize that they were very focused on doing those types of things for your members. That is really special. I love that. So with the new Versa location, who will you be attracting to that space versus the space. Or will it just be the same marketing plan?

: We already have pre licensed several of those spaces. We have found that a lot are people who are living right there in the neighborhood. So they're coming out of the condominiums there or close by. They want to be able to walk to work. Maybe right now they're working from home. And very excited about not working from home anymore and having something that's just really right there.

: That location also has several offices that are larger sized. So we have a lot more 4, 5, 6, 8 person offices than we do here. We hear we have a lot of 1, 3, or larger size spaces sold out right away here in Grandview Heights. And so we built out some larger spaces there. And and we're getting a lot of traction on that. So people with four or five employees who once again if you want to be in the Arena District, and you have a small firm of four or five people, really where are you going to go?

: Right. And like you said and have the amenities of just beautiful office space that's very impressive to clients when you walk in and it may be something that they couldn't have if they were furnishing and decorating on their own. And it really is very impressive and atmospheric. So that's great. I love it here.

: And I can't wait to show our new space.

: I know I can't wait to see it.

: I'm really excited about it.

: I was asking on the way in about the big scroll on the top of the what's going to happen with that.

: We're working on that. We're working on that. So we keep scraping it down and with every layer it still says Business First, which is fine. We love Business First and we're excited. They've been very curious about what we have done inside the space, and we look forward to having them come and see what we've done. They're going to get the first peek at it. It's all in process, let's put it that way. We did get our name on the building last week. But we still have the Business First scroll on the top.

: But it's so noticeable that you know keeping doing something differently with it's going to be just great, because it's really noticeable. And eye catching.

: So how can people find out more about Versa?

: You can find us online. We're at Versa dot works. And we have lots of information there. You can stop in so we take walk ins and we have our staff who is here Monday through Friday from 8a to 6p, they're here. Give us a call. So we have you Amy Minahan who is our Director of the space here, and Oliver Coffey who you have met. Trey who is doing our business development and we're all having a lot of fun. So we would welcome anyone who wants to check out what this is all about to come and see.

: And you know not every space is right for every person.

: But that's the beauty of this.

: That's the beauty of this. There's lots to learn about this trend that's happening and we're late to the trend as far as in the United States. So as always, the coast go first. But we're picking up steam quickly. You know people are really figuring this out.

: And it's really going to be a nice way for people to connect with one another and to work either independently or in small groups or like I said in enterprises. But allows them to get done what they need to do, and not worry about the stuff, the distractions.

: The distractions, right, because you're taking care of that for them.

: Right.

: And so Versa dot works. I would really encourage everybody listening to stop in and meet the staff and see this space and take a look around because it really is beautiful and unique and I think there's something for just about everybody. So I would encourage everybody to come in. But thank you for joining us and giving us a little more insight and diversity and we look forward to the next one opening soon.

: Yes, thank you.

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Business Inspires - Jason Design Studio

Jason Design Studio

Hi this is Michelle Wilson. I'm with the tri Village Chamber partnership and I'm here today on the business inspirers podcast with Jason Willis. Jason thanks for joining us. You're welcome. I was going to say you're with Jason design studio which you are. But there's there's so much we want. I want to talk about with you today because I've known you for so many years now you're my life with the chamber and and you've done a few different things during those years so yeah. To say the least. Yes you have. So when I met you you were doing ad sales basically is that right. That's right. OK. And you had what market.

I had downtown German village Grand View in the Short North. Not the greatest markets for community newspaper but right several grand view of course.

And so we worked together in that capacity for a little bit and then you started saying oh I'll design that for you because I would be taking out ads for the chamber for an event or something and I thought you know I don't know how to do any of this stuff. So I don't have a designer. And you started designing things for you is that kind of when your interest in design began or was it always there and you just had to. You had to find a fit to make it work.

Yeah I. So I worked with a great designer named Annie at this week news and I found that the my favorite thing to do you know selling advertising especially newspaper advertising is it is a tough game these days with everything moving more digital but I found that my favorite thing to do is do the layouts and to sketch out advertising that little ads and I kind of because I was in advertising I got a good feel for what people were looking for and how they read an ad and how they looked at marketing. So I would sit down with other designers and try to talk through how I wanted the ad to look and I'm like I just wanted to do this myself. And so you know kind of controlling. My old boss would say absolutely hate it all the time that I spent with with our ad designers but I wanted things to be right and in the end that's was my inspiration.

And they were and Kay side note love Annie Miss Annie is great. Clearly she was a good mentor to you. But you also helped the chamber at the time when I was just the Grandview marble Cliff chamber. Before we became tri village you helped us put together our first full size full color directory for the community and because you had such a great eye and and vision that publication for the first three years won national awards.

Yeah yeah I think it was national advertising in that in that community size won first place nationally which was surprise. I don't say it's surprising but it was a little surprising.

It was a little surprising because it was our first shot out of the gate to do that type of directory and we took a took a leap and did our cover as a night shot which when you're representing community was was kind of different because you know you want the sunshiny flowery rainbow picture of the community representing and we did a winter in Columbus Ohio area night shot and it was awesome.

I think that was because we were subject to the time that we had. I think we kind of started late.

We did go. We did course we did.

We started we started late going through the process of picking photography and luckily I had a friend who is amazing at Photoshop actually I went outside of the dispatch and talked to a buddy who was a photoshop guru and he took out all the power lines and just made it look really good.

If you remember he put changed the sign changed the sign on you can say yeah that's right. Yeah. It's still my favorite cover. I don't know if it was just because it was the first time and it was different and it won an award but it's still my favorite and if you remember the photo was taken by a vital vital vital fight for corporate America another chamber board member all worked out beautifully. So you started when I knew you were at the dispatch and you worked for the community newspapers. Is that where you got your start your career started.

No.

So I was sort of I always thought I was kind of artistic when I was younger but I always say you know I got into sales but I first thing I did I was in the school music at a high state and a lot of people don't realize that I played jazz and classical trumpet. Wow. So I did not know that. Yeah. So I took I wanted to be either an architect or you know one thing or be a musician. Yeah. So I went to a high school music for several years found that they were pushing me towards teaching which I liked but I didn't want to be a band director. So I dropped out of there and I've been going to college off and on ever since finally got my degree in graphic design and I just tidy that up a few years ago. Quite honestly so I have enough credits to be probably have four degrees none of them none of them would make sense. But you know I think that's one thing that I do as I constantly learn. You know I kind of got that from my dad. My dad got his degree when he was 40 years old to 38. So he was an inspiration for me because he was a carpenter and then he's like you know I got to do more with my life and I've found his passion and he went for it and that's that's kind of how I went to.

That's amazing.

So he he of his family yeah and he was he coached my team or took him eight years to get a two year degree. He was coaching me.

He was umpiring basketball and refereeing or refereeing basketball umpiring football and that's something I would say umpiring umpire yes like I don't know sports baseboard right.

But yes so he was a big inspiration my life he read. I don't remember those old encyclopedia britannica as lawyers side. We got those. And he I remember going upstairs and he read every single one cover to cover. Oh my gosh.

Just because. Because he wanted to and he just was constantly learning and you know I hated reading when I was a kid and yeah I find that is something I do every day now. I read every day I'll try to learn something new everyday even if by accident.

Do tutorials you know Google on YouTube is amazing if you're trying to learn procedures in Photoshop or wordpress or whatever. There's a lot of things you can you can learn from there.

So anyway it's I love the story that your dad was such an inspiration. That's great. That's great. So you were at the dispatch. You decide you've found this little niche that you kind of liked and that I have. I have something here and I'm good at this so what did it take for you to make the leap to leave that and start on your own. That's a big leap.

Well two things. One thing is that I lost my three biggest print advertising customers in like two months and not because of something I did it just because they were transitioning into digital advertising and radio and the TV.

More so you know that was a big chunk of change. And I was kind of at that point where I was going to kind of ride this bull till it bucked me in it and bucked me and I had a friend who I worked with in German Village in the German village society. That was a graphic designer design Smith Studios and he was he actually set me up with one of his big clients and I did all his overflew work. And so it allowed me to kind of get right out the gate and he was he was very precise and he kind of taught me how to really check my work. And you know it wasn't that I wouldn't say the sexiest of design work but it got me started. Sure. So.

And did he give you any good solid advice and starting your own business in that field.

Yeah names Jeff Smith design Smith. He was he had been doing it for years and actually he used to teach some design at Columbus State. So he was very patient with me. And you know sometimes I think I need to bring on more people to help me because I get overwhelmed. But I think it would take me just as long to explain what I want to have done and have it done myself do it myself. So he was very patient and he was great at that and I probably he was probably the real starting point for me it helped me get into the business.

Great. That's nice to have somebody and he's local so you can still rely on him if you had a question and that's great. Still DongJun village. So when you do face some of the challenges of being overwhelmed having a lot of work on your plate having a little less time than is ideal how do you how do you persevere what do you what are some of your tools in your toolbox that you could share with perhaps other entrepreneurs who are facing the same challenges.

Well the first thing that comes to mind is don't be afraid to work the weekends but which is something I do quite often find a little time extra. There's always time I think to do things and you get distracted very easily. I'll go four to six hours and I'll actually turn my phone and my email off. That's a little it's tough these days especially with things coming at you and deadlines and people need things really quick. But if you have a project that is really bearing down on you I find that just turn it off and people get mad at me sometimes I'm like where were you. I needed nine as well. You know you should have you know I get to give me 24 hours at least 48 is usually I can turn things around very quickly. But you know certain things need attention and you've got to give us some time.

Do you think that some of your customers are clients kind of think because you're on your own and you still have other things to do and so you have all the time in the world because you're not sitting in a big box office with a big staff do you think that that's that's a challenge that you face from your from the client perspective is that they just they think you're at their beck and call or no as it's always you set that I expect.

Not really as long as you set that expectation. Sometimes I turn things around so quickly that they're happy I tell them you know you set an expectation and you exceed it right. Right. So if I say you've got to give me 48 hours and I turn it around 30 minutes you know they'll get used to that but I I tell them you know if they send me something and I know that I'm busy and I know that I'm working on a big project I'm going to tell them this is going to be tomorrow or was that okay. Communication is the key. I find that when I was in advertising I didn't care if a customer gave me a yes or no. Just give me one of those things right. Right.

I'm not. Is it a hard sale. I was like yeah. I just don't. People

Ghosting me and especially you know your graphic designer. You don't want people that are in the service industry ghosting you. Basically you want communication even if it is to tell them that it's going to be a day or two.

Right. That's all and that's how I feel. So I think that's what you're saying is just if it's going to be a day or two just let me know that and then I'm good you know and I can plan around that. Exactly yeah. And you do that with me a lot. So I will mention that that you do a lot of work for the chamber. And right now I'm keeping you very busy day. Yes yes. And I say I need this today and most the time you're able to do that. So that's really appreciated. And you know I don't ever want to take advantage of that fact which is probably one of the reasons I ask that question is do you feel taken advantage of the times.

But if somebody needs. Sometimes people just need something today. You know I'll I'll take care of it.

And probably most of the time you can do that. Yeah yeah yeah. If it's. Yes yes. And you do. You travel a lot. So sometimes that means you set the expectation at least with me that says Hey Michelle I'm going to be out these 10 days. And and so I know you know try to load you up before you leave her. Jeff when you get back. But. But I pretty much. I know. And tell me about your travel.

That's where you go when it comes to business I have 10 to 15 clients constantly you know need something at some point during the month. But you know me and my girlfriend Kelley we travel quite a bit late lately at least once a month. Whether she's traveling I'm traveling or traveling together we're decidedly starting to slow that down because it is you know when you start your own business especially in the beginning it's been a few years for me now but in the beginning you got to be present. Nice thing about what I do is I can take my laptop with me and if I have emergency work that needs done. But I let my clients know a month or two in advance like I'm going to be out these days. Right. If it's especially if it's a good chunk of business hours. I want to make sure they know that.

And so for your regular clients is this is it ongoing or do do you do a lot of project worker. I mean are they calling you and you're doing work for them every day like this. Are you a part of their staff.

I have. I have several clients that are like that. OK. One being Jazz Arts Group of Columbus Yeah I do all their billboards and advertising and digital ads and all that. And that's pretty Conair playbills. So you know they have whatever their schedule is they have 6 10 20 shows a year whenever they are two different seasons they have their Zeu season they have their winter season. Some pretty dialed into that. I go to their events so I know what's going on with that and I go to their shows and a lesbian with actually them because I used to study jazz right. Yeah. Her goal seems to make sense but I have a couple of clients like that that are constantly Rockford homes is another I do all their marketing advertising. I even write some blogs for them which isn't my favorite thing to do but I do it. Yeah I do love it good.

So what do you think you would do differently today. Now that you're a few years down the road starting your business.

I would have started it 20 years ago. Really. Yes. But it took me you know it took me 20 years to really find my passion and sometimes that happens. Sharam it was been kind of a wild ride. I ran some pizza restaurants and I've I've done all kinds I was you know studied music I studied business I sold advertising and in the end that's probably where I got my launch into creative work for marketing.

I love helping small businesses medium size businesses.

I've had a couple large businesses that I've dealt with but you definitely feel more involved with smaller businesses feel more everything's more at stake you know especially when you're building a website for them. Occasionally I get brand new businesses where I'm doing their logo all other marketing picking their colors and designing their Web site.

He did that with us. You did that with the chamber Yeah. We matched and that was it was. I had no idea where to start. So you know even though you were kind of new into what you were doing the guidance that you gave us to develop our logo and our colors was really helpful because I had no idea where the starting point was. And you came in with a survey or a questionnaire that helped us really think about and identify who we wanted to be and find something that was going to stick and have longevity and make sense not only two years ago when we merged but 20 years down the road.

Yeah. You know everything needs freshened up after a while and trends change and sure you know everything gets stodgy. So that's why I'm always going to be in business because everybody's always going to need something new. Colors are going to change. We use dropshot when I use drop shadow. Is it a flat design. There's all kinds of things that are changing over the years.

You know I try to make things that kind of stand the test of time. But that's that's that's designed. It's constantly changing and it's exciting and you got to keep up with it.

Right. So I said I was just going to ask you was how do you keep up with the trends.

The reading I belong to a lot of blogs and blogs have been a sort of a weird thing over the years. But all they are just news feeds really. People write their stories and they blog it out. And I remember probably 10 years ago I was like I'll never read a blog. I read them every day. Yeah. Because it's information it's really industry specific inside information. There are so many blogs out there you just search new design techniques in 2018 and you'll get all these blogs and all these people were talking about what's trending now. So I read that stuff constantly now. It's kind of amazing.

Which is good for you and your development but certainly good for your clients. So do you have a preference on types of businesses or sizes of businesses. I mean you kind of mentioned that the smaller businesses you're a little more closely tied to. But you know is there something that you.

Is there a niche you prefer with smaller businesses. Give me a little more carte Blash so that medium larger sized businesses anything over 30 50 employees they're going to have a lot more to say about what they want which is which is fine. Sure. But I kind of like the smaller businesses sometimes because they give me a little more creative freedom than they trust me a little more and sometimes you have to sell your designs even especially to these medium and large larger businesses you really have to sell your designs and convince them what is right. Sometimes you know the customer isn't always right about these types of things so you have to educate them.

And that's probably hard to convince a large company who's been doing the same thing for a while and they're kind of tied to what they've been doing.

Yeah they're tied to their brand and you want to you know you don't want to go in and reinvent the wheel and the customer in the end. They want what they want. Sure. I'll try to talk them out of going into a bad habit type thing type designs. But it is what it is. Yeah. Got to get what they want.

I remember when we were coming up with this podcast and Brett and I were working on what do we called this thing. What is it you know we're talking about businesses but we want it to be a little more personal. We want to tie the listener to each of our businesses on a personal level so that you know maybe they they get their printing done with x printer but they also know that you know how that printer got there and why they're doing that and what their passion is. And Brett and I came up with something I can't remember what it was because I talked to you on the phone and I said hey I need you to design this logo. And we talked it through again. And and you said that sounds kind of inspirational and I said oh my gosh that's it. It's business inspires. And so that's how we came up with that. Forget about that. This nice reminder but that's exactly how we came up with that was having that conversation with you on the phone and that it's nice that you can listen to each client especially small businesses that are like me that are they I know what they want to do but they don't know exactly how to get there. And so you're able it seems to me to be able to adapt to who they are and what they're trying to accomplish and and help them get to that end game. So that's really nice. So tell us a little bit about what you do every day.

So I do graphic design web design and marketing photography you know photography was one thing that kind of came in late and it was something it was I took some classes on it and found out that I had a pretty good eye for it. And I recently did a wedding which I said I would never do. But I did it for a friend of mine you dress. It wasn't because it we just it was pretty laid back wedding but I I find I have a pretty good eye for marketing to toggery food photography things like that.

So I had shots which I've done for you guys too. Yes. So we do I do a little bit of that graphic design portion I do logo design advertising. I took probably five or six Photoshop classes in college and I still only know about 75 percent of Photoshop. So there's there's so much more to learn but it's it's it's fun because you have to learn every day and I love doing it using Illustrator doing logo designs like like the tri village logo and trying to make that work for everybody. InDesign is another program I use that's for doing layout magazine layouts and things like that advertising layouts. And most recently probably the last three years I picked up web design and that I took some classes on coding which is not something that I am I am not a coder and I will never be a coder but I know how code works and I can write code if I have to. I use WordPress as a basis for my web design but it's nice being. Most large firms that do web design they'll have a designer and then they'll have a coder who will make it happen. So the designer will send mockups to the client and then if they like it then they sign off on it and then the coder will actually create the Web site based on the mockups. Well I kind of cut that middleman out. I'm a designer who can design websites with a builder and modern technology has gotten to which WordPress certain WordPress Themes and builders are so easy to use now that you don't really need to do a full custom and pay the 100 to 300 miles. You know some of those companies do need these million dollar platforms but you know small medium businesses can get it done much less expense than they used to be and how about turnaround time does that allow you to turn things around more quickly for clients.

It does. But again I'm a one man show so sometimes I will engage some other Web designers to help out in that case.

But yes in the end yes it really does take less time and it sounds like it's more affordable much more affordable. You know I don't really have to I have to keep the lights on in my home office. But you know large firms they're going to you know you're going to pay 150 dollars an hour where you are going to pay half of that with me just because that's just I just don't have the overhead that these large firms have.

Right. Good. And so where can people find you.

My web is w w w Jason design studio dot com for me on my Web site.

Fantastic. Thank you so much for joining us today. I would highly encourage you to check Jason out. Clearly we use him a lot at the chamber and and for our events and lots of logo work and we really appreciate all of your help. But I would encourage everybody to to check you out get to know you because you do great work.

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